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Thread: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups[W:484,732]

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    Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups [W:484

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    WRT whether this indicates any wrongdoing on the part of the admin, yes it's politically meaningless
    Can you expound on the 'limits' of 'the admin'? Or is your argument that the IRS is not under the prevue of 'the admin'?
    "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure" - 2006 Senator Obama...leadership failure indeed!

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    Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups [W:484

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    Can you expound on the 'limits' of 'the admin'? Or is your argument that the IRS is not under the prevue of 'the admin'?
    I said nothing about any "limits" or "prevue" (and I think you mean "purview")
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    Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    You are letting your imagination run wild. The IRS will not have access to your medical records. Their enforcement role in "Obamacare" has nothing to do with the medical side of things.
    94.jpg

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    Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    I think the body of my original statement had most of it... but let's further elaborate:

    The IRS was using intelligent discriminators to identify potential political groups applying for tax-exempt status under a category reserved for groups that were only secondarily political.

    IRS targeted groups that criticized the government, IG report says

    Yes, the IRS did get overly zealous in its scrutiny. However, unlike the suggestion of parts of the media that would have you believe that people were targeted, harassed, audited or otherwise denied their rights. None of this happened. In fact, no taxpayers were harmed in the making of this "scandal" No one was denied the tax exempt status sought.

    The default position of a 501(c)(4) application is that you get the tax exempt status, you get to simply declare yourself a 501(c)(4) and act accordingly. You do not have to apply for the status. However, entities that exist on the bubble between those that educate about social welfare and those with a political agenda (like Tea Party entities) are advised to obtain the blessing of the IRS, lest they later be declared not a 501(c)(4). The IRS CAN take away the status, but it does not grant the status. Curiously, however, this entire controversy was born and lived during the tenure of Douglas Shulman, a Bush appointee (who served until November 2012). He doesn't seem to be a likely guy to have a political agenda AGAINST conservative groups.

    The reason there was no foul, is that no one lost their status as a result of this. They "crime" was they were asked a lot of questions. The link below is the actual "declaration" form.

    http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/Form14449.pdf

    501(c)4 vs 501(c)3 vs 527

    501(c) organization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Yes, the IRS used discriminators that singled out Tea Party groups, but they were the most prevalent and the most controversial (in terms of qualifying as a 501(c)(4) group) of the time. This is blown way out of proportion.
    Yes, I knew all this. Now what is the 'issue'?...'the IRS did get overly zealous in its scrutiny'.

    Further 'Yes, the IRS used discriminators that singled out Tea Party groups, but they were the most prevalent and the most controversial...' The IG's sample was 244 of the ~2450 applications. Only 42 of the 244 were 'tea party groups'. What were the other 202? Since we don't know (and affirmed by the testimony of the IG today) how can you make the 'most prevalent and the most controversial' claim...now wondering how much you THINK you know about this especially considering you brought BUSH into the discussion. While logical that he would not have a political agenda it seems similarly logical that IF there were progressive/liberal leaning groups in the 202 they would have been identified and pronounced to promote a legitimate 'non-biased' application meme of the standards utilized. The mere absence of this defense doesn't mean it is not available but that it is just unknown. Frankly there may certainly not be anything to this but currently we know what we don't know AND we don't know what we don't know. Hence the continuance of the IG's INVESTIGATION (again as affirmed by the IG's testimony today). But to claim 'This is blown way out of proportion' at this point seems quite presumptuous.
    Last edited by Dickieboy; 05-22-13 at 12:59 AM. Reason: wrong 'universe of cases'
    "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure" - 2006 Senator Obama...leadership failure indeed!

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    Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    I think the body of my original statement had most of it... but let's further elaborate:

    The IRS was using intelligent discriminators to identify potential political groups applying for tax-exempt status under a category reserved for groups that were only secondarily political.

    IRS targeted groups that criticized the government, IG report says

    Yes, the IRS did get overly zealous in its scrutiny. However, unlike the suggestion of parts of the media that would have you believe that people were targeted, harassed, audited or otherwise denied their rights. None of this happened. In fact, no taxpayers were harmed in the making of this "scandal" No one was denied the tax exempt status sought.

    The default position of a 501(c)(4) application is that you get the tax exempt status, you get to simply declare yourself a 501(c)(4) and act accordingly. You do not have to apply for the status. However, entities that exist on the bubble between those that educate about social welfare and those with a political agenda (like Tea Party entities) are advised to obtain the blessing of the IRS, lest they later be declared not a 501(c)(4). The IRS CAN take away the status, but it does not grant the status. Curiously, however, this entire controversy was born and lived during the tenure of Douglas Shulman, a Bush appointee (who served until November 2012). He doesn't seem to be a likely guy to have a political agenda AGAINST conservative groups.

    The reason there was no foul, is that no one lost their status as a result of this. They "crime" was they were asked a lot of questions. The link below is the actual "declaration" form.

    http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/Form14449.pdf

    501(c)4 vs 501(c)3 vs 527

    501(c) organization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Yes, the IRS used discriminators that singled out Tea Party groups, but they were the most prevalent and the most controversial (in terms of qualifying as a 501(c)(4) group) of the time. This is blown way out of proportion.

    Strange that the IRS demanded the donor list of all an organization's contributors per the Wapo. Don't really see that in the guidelines.

    BTW, Blown Way Out of Proportion is what happens when you piss of the press by spying on their reporters and then defending it with impunity as a matter of national security. Unless heads start rolling you can bet that the WH will suffer greatly in its ability to control any stories from this point forward.

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    Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups [W:484

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I said nothing about any "limits" or "prevue" (and I think you mean "purview")
    No it was my question to you as it seems you feel (as stated previously) that the IRS is somehow outside the 'limits' of the admin...

    Actually I meant purvue, autocorrect changed but purview is acceptable...thx
    "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure" - 2006 Senator Obama...leadership failure indeed!

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    Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups [W:484

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    I hope every citizen is concerned because what's going on here is a wake-up call.
    a wake up call about what, exactly?
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups [W:484

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    a wake up call about what, exactly?
    This is justabubba hitting snooze.

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    Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups [W:484

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    This is justabubba hitting snooze.
    if it was a wake up call, then tell me what the call was about
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    No, there was nothing even remotely criminal going on here. Just hard working, apolitical career-bureaucrats doing the best job they could with limited resources, only to be turned into a political football by conservative political opportunists.
    I am stunned by the ignorance of this. But I should have expected it. Silly me.

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