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Thread: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups[W:484,732]

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    Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    That's part of the investigation isn't it?
    and joko proposes to both prosecute them and sue them for damages without having even a sniff of evidence of wrongdoing
    and he says he wears a badge. that is the scary part
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

    This entire episode should be very chilling to all Americans. The very sad and troubling part of it is, that those who perpetrated the actions (and they are surely criminal actions) do not believe they did ANYTHING WRONG!!! However, ask any of them if the harassment was on the other foot they would be looking to throw anyone involved in jail. Double standard is alive and well in the good ole USA.

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    Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    and joko proposes to both prosecute them and sue them for damages without having even a sniff of evidence of wrongdoing
    and he says he wears a badge. that is the scary part
    Easy to sit behind a computer and anonymously accuse people of crimes

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    Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodman909 View Post
    This entire episode should be very chilling to all Americans. The very sad and troubling part of it is, that those who perpetrated the actions (and they are surely criminal actions) do not believe they did ANYTHING WRONG!!! However, ask any of them if the harassment was on the other foot they would be looking to throw anyone involved in jail. Double standard is alive and well in the good ole USA.
    No, there was nothing even remotely criminal going on here. Just hard working, apolitical career-bureaucrats doing the best job they could with limited resources, only to be turned into a political football by conservative political opportunists.

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    Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups [W:484

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    ...That means that 14 of 206 non conservative groups were also subjected to unnecessary questions.
    I don't believe the figure you are using reflects this nor does the report specifically state the 'others' are 'non-conservative'. What it DOES identify are the numbers of organizations investigated by the 'specific identifiers' noted in the BOLO. Currently we just don't know WHO is in this 202 group.

    Further realize that the audit was a 'statistical sample of 244 I.R.C. 501(c)(4) cases closed from May 2010 through May 2012 or open as of May 31, 2012, from a universe of 2,459 applications that the IRS determined required additional information from the organizations applying for tax-exempt status'. Considering the miniscule number within that sample logic dictates that many of the others have progressive/liberal leanings. Why aren't the officials not countering the 'targeting' accusations by pointing out those with the presumed leanings? Or are we to believe that the VAST majority are conservative leaning which the results of the sampling doesn't support?
    "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure" - 2006 Senator Obama...leadership failure indeed!

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    Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups [W:484

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    There's a phenomenon called selection bias. It's where we ignore or excuse evidence that we don't like because we don't like it. The IG report lists the facts as we know them now. You can't discard the IG report and expect anyone to take you seriously. This whole "scandal" is based on the IG report.
    That and the apology from the IRS for specifically targeting those groups. Anyone who would argue that certain groups were not specifically targeted is missing the obvious.
    There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences.
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    Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups [W:484

    Quote Originally Posted by Heebie Jeebie View Post
    That and the apology from the IRS for specifically targeting those groups. Anyone who would argue that certain groups were not specifically targeted is missing the obvious.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Now it's random stacks of paper?

    When are the excuses going to end? even the fracking president apologized and people are being fired over this scandal yet progressives are attempting to defend it?

    Funny how progressive organization weren't targeted.... So I suppose our government sorts paper via political ideology - democrats and republicans.
    No one is arguing that conservatives weren't targeted, and everyone agrees that it is wrong.

    However, groups with conservative keywords were also ridiculously likely to need investigation. At least 82% of conservative groups were properly investigated. That compares to 6% of other groups.

    That means if you're looking through a stack of paper and you see conservative buzz words, there's a REALLY good chance that the group needs to be investigated. On the other hand, if the application doesn't have conservative sounding words, it's pretty unlikely that it will need to be investigated.

    Imagine that you have to sort through 1000 Ikea packages to find 60 that are missing parts. To do the job right, you need to open up each package and count every little screw, nut, and washer. However, you also know that there are a 21 packages painted florescent yellow, and they're mostly all wrong. In fact 17 all of the florescent yellow packages have missing parts.

    You pick up the next package and find that it's bright yellow. Human nature says that you're going to count the number of washers a few more times than you would for a plain package.

    Yes it's wrong, but it's also understandable.

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    Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups [W:484

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    No one is arguing that conservatives weren't targeted, and everyone agrees that it is wrong.

    However, groups with conservative keywords were also ridiculously likely to need investigation. At least 82% of conservative groups were properly investigated. That compares to 6% of other groups.

    That means if you're looking through a stack of paper and you see conservative buzz words, there's a REALLY good chance that the group needs to be investigated. On the other hand, if the application doesn't have conservative sounding words, it's pretty unlikely that it will need to be investigated.

    Imagine that you have to sort through 1000 Ikea packages to find 60 that are missing parts. To do the job right, you need to open up each package and count every little screw, nut, and washer. However, you also know that there are a 21 packages painted florescent yellow, and they're mostly all wrong. In fact 17 all of the florescent yellow packages have missing parts.

    You pick up the next package and find that it's bright yellow. Human nature says that you're going to count the number of washers a few more times than you would for a plain package.

    Yes it's wrong, but it's also understandable.
    So you concede that at least there was discrimination involved, however it's just a coincidence?

    I've had it with the sympathizers...

    This is what happens when you appoint Chicago politicians and mix them in a cereal box with loyal democrats... "its not that big of a deal, we got caught so sorry."

    There is no other explanation and I'm not a democrat so I don't buy alternative ideas.

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    Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups [W:484

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    I don't believe the figure you are using reflects this nor does the report specifically state the 'others' are 'non-conservative'. What it DOES identify are the numbers of organizations investigated by the 'specific identifiers' noted in the BOLO. Currently we just don't know WHO is in this 202 group.

    Further realize that the audit was a 'statistical sample of 244 I.R.C. 501(c)(4) cases closed from May 2010 through May 2012 or open as of May 31, 2012, from a universe of 2,459 applications that the IRS determined required additional information from the organizations applying for tax-exempt status'. Considering the miniscule number within that sample logic dictates that many of the others have progressive/liberal leanings. Why aren't the officials not countering the 'targeting' accusations by pointing out those with the presumed leanings? Or are we to believe that the VAST majority are conservative leaning which the results of the sampling doesn't support?
    Yep, good catch. And it turns out that all of the news articles I read about this quoted it incorrectly.

    The Determinations Unit sent requests for information that we later (in whole or in part) determined to be unnecessary for 98 58 percent) of 170 organizations that received additional information request letters

    the Determinations Unit requested donor information from 27 organizations that it would be required to make public if the application was approved, even though this information could not be disclosed by the IRS when provided by organizations whose tax-exempt status had been approved.

    From footnote 29 " Of the 27 organizations, 13 had Tea Party, Patriots, or 9/12 in their names.

    So we don't know what percentage of conservative groups were targeted for specific questions, we only know that about half of the 27 groups asked to provide donor lists as part of the application process had 13 had Tea Party, Patriots, or 9/12 in their names.

    As an aside, this was improper during the application process, as all application materials are to be made public upon approval. However, 501(c)(4)s must release all donor information over some amount to the IRS, but they are allowed to redact this from the public.
    Last edited by Mithros; 05-21-13 at 03:22 PM.

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    Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups [W:484

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    No, there was
    nothing even remotely criminal going on here. Just hard working, apolitical career-bureaucrats doing the best job they could with limited resources, only to be turned into a political football by conservative political opportunists.
    Well then why is Lois Lerner pleading the 5th in the morning ?

    If it's just about collecting taxes that is.

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