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  1. #441
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    Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    Meanwhile, an apology for these IRS transgressions isn't enough.
    And now we have the POTUS rejecting calls for a special investigator. Pretty much duck and weave. Not the response one would expect from someone not concerned with the scandal reaching his office.

    It's a way to doom the issue to he said/she said by guaranteeing it becomes a partisan football issue.

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    Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    Nothing short of Obama's impeachment will be enough for most
    conservatives.
    Well he doesn't have the class or character to step down, so yea IF you can pin high crimes and misdemeanors on him he SHOULD be impeached.

    Hell we didn't elect that corrupt fool, why should we subjected to the consequence of his dishonesty and incompetence ?

    Nixon bowed out and the IRS never even targeted opposing groups. Obama's IRS DID !!

    Hundreds of times. Oh but he gets a pass while you libs manafacture false narratives about Bush Jr ?

    I dont think so.

  3. #443
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    Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Nixon bowed out and the IRS never even targeted opposing groups. Obama's IRS DID !!
    I'm not sure Obama is to blame for the IRS attempting to address the drastic rise in political groups vying for government welfare post-2008.

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    Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    Nothing short of Obama's impeachment will be enough for most conservatives.
    I have seen much of that. I, for one, am opposed to such an action unless absolutely required - and I do mean absolutely. Otherwise, there just isn't sufficient justification for it on many, many levels, and some of those levels are purely partisan in nature, too.

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    Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Allow me to clarify: Citizens United made it legal for corporations and unions to spend money directly on elections.


    The money could indeed be used to engage in political discourse, and it was completely legal to spend millions in an election year without disclosing your donors - that did not change with Citizens United.

    Citizens United basically said that you can't prohibit or restrict corporations/unions from engaging in "independent communications" i.e. independently advocating for candidates in an election. It is because such expenditures were legal under a 501(c)(4) prior to C.U. that they couldn't take corporate donations. After Citizens United, the restriction was lifted. Thus, Citizens United didn't change how the 501(c)(4) worked, or who was shielded and who wasn't, it only allowed corporations and unions to make use of a 501(c)(4).
    Actually it wasn't.

    501(c)(4)'s could use general funds to engage in lobbying. They were subject to the Federal Lobbying Disclosure Act (LDA) and had to report how much they spent and how they spent it, but they did not (and still don't) have to disclose the source of funds used. So that was one way they could influence politics. They were also allowed to spend general funds to paying for partisan material, as long as it was only sent to their membership, and in some cases they were allowed to engage in ballot measure advocacy in certain states under certain situations.

    But in order to engage in electioneering, 501(c)(4)'s had to set up a Federal Separate Segregated Fund (SSF) also known as a connected PAC. The 501(c)(4) could pay administrative costs of SSF through general funds, but the SSF was subject to the Federal Election Campaign Act. As such they had to report donors SSF donors to FEC using Form 3X.

    However, Citizens United removed the restrictions on independent expenditures by corporations, associations, or labor unions. This included 501(c)(4)'s.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citize...ion_Commission
    The Citizens United ruling did however remove the previous ban on corporations and organizations using their treasury funds for direct advocacy. These groups were freed to expressly endorse or call to vote for or against specific candidates, actions that were previously prohibited.

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    Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Is that what this scandal proves, that the IRS stayed out of politics? BTW, Miller is the one resigning, not Shulman.
    It proves that it's important *TO KEEP* the IRS out of politics.

    And yeah. Miller is resigning because someone had to resign. Shulman was the head of the IRS when all of the problems occurred.

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    Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    I'm not sure Obama is to blame for the
    IRS attempting to address the drastic rise in political groups vying for government welfare post-2008.
    Lol...He is the DIRECT reason for a rise in Conservative PACs.

    Hell, those people, applying for tax exempt status were trying to do you and everyone else a huge favor.

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    Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Well he doesn't have the class or character to step down, so yea IF you can pin high crimes and misdemeanors on him he SHOULD be impeached.

    Hell we didn't elect that corrupt fool, why should we subjected to the consequence of his dishonesty and incompetence ?

    Nixon bowed out and the IRS never even targeted opposing groups. Obama's IRS DID !!

    Hundreds of times. Oh but he gets a pass while you libs manafacture false narratives about Bush Jr ?

    I dont think so.

    Seriously, what is it with some of you conservatives? Anytime you lose an election it's IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH. Yeah there are crazies on the left, but not nearly as many or as bad.

    I was a conservative during the Clinton years, and I followed all of the supposed scandals. Then Bush took office and many of the same things happened. Conservatives were silent. Then worse things happened.... Still silence. Obama takes office and its IMPEACH IMPAEACH IMPEACH.

    It's just not credible. Like him, hate him, whatever, objectively he's run the cleanest administration in a generation. Most effective, ehhhh. But certainly the cleanest, most scandal free. And yes, that's objective.

    The Obama administration has been held under a microscope like no other. You think tea party groups had to provide “too much” information to the IRS. What about Fast and Furious? What about Benghazi? What about every other supposed scandal that starts out by with the House Republicans clambering about impeachable offenses because they suspect that something may exist in some document that they don't yet have even though they have no evidence to suggest that any such thing exists.

    This is like saying, if Fenton murdered someone we'll be sure to send him straight to jail. How could he possibly think that he could get away with murder. I know he hasn't turned himself in, but if we can pin this charge on him, then we'll be sure to take him to trial. Granted, we have no evidence that Fenton did anything, but we also don't have all of the information yet.

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    Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    Seriously, what is it with some of you conservatives? Anytime you lose an election it's IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH. Yeah there are crazies on the left, but not nearly as many or as bad.

    I was a conservative during the Clinton years, and I followed all of the supposed scandals. Then Bush took office and many of the same things happened. Conservatives were silent. Then worse things happened.... Still silence. Obama takes office and its IMPEACH IMPAEACH IMPEACH.

    It's just not credible. Like him, hate him, whatever, objectively he's run the cleanest administration in a generation. Most effective, ehhhh. But certainly the cleanest, most scandal free. And yes, that's objective.

    The Obama administration has been held under a microscope like no other. You think tea party groups had to provide “too much” information to the IRS. What about Fast and Furious? What about Benghazi? What about every other supposed scandal that starts out by with the House Republicans clambering about impeachable offenses because they suspect that something may exist in some document that they don't yet have even though they have no evidence to suggest that any such thing exists.

    This is like saying, if Fenton murdered someone we'll be sure to send him straight to jail. How could he possibly think that he could get away with murder. I know he hasn't turned himself in, but if we can pin this charge on him, then we'll be sure to take him to trial. Granted, we have no evidence that Fenton did anything, but we also don't have all of the information yet.
    Just the facts, please. Standard talking points are a waste of bits.

  10. #450
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    Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    Seriously, what is it with some of you conservatives? Anytime you lose an election it's IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH. Yeah there are crazies on the left, but not nearly as many or as bad.

    I was a conservative during the Clinton years, and I followed all of the supposed scandals. Then Bush took office and many of the same things happened. Conservatives were silent. Then worse things happened.... Still silence. Obama takes office and its IMPEACH IMPAEACH IMPEACH.

    It's just not credible. Like him, hate him, whatever, objectively he's run the cleanest administration in a generation. Most effective, ehhhh. But certainly the cleanest, most scandal free. And yes, that's objective.

    The Obama administration has been held under a microscope like no other. You think tea party groups had to provide “too much” information to the IRS. What about Fast and Furious? What about Benghazi? What about every other supposed scandal that starts out by with the House Republicans clambering about impeachable offenses because they suspect that something may exist in some document that they don't yet have even though they have no evidence to suggest that any such thing exists.

    This is like saying, if Fenton murdered someone we'll be sure to send him straight to jail. How could he possibly think that he could get away with murder. I know he hasn't turned himself in, but if we can pin this charge on him, then we'll be sure to take him to trial. Granted, we have no evidence that Fenton did anything, but we also don't have all of the information yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Just the facts, please. Standard talking points are a waste of bits.
    Exactly what do you say that is not standard talking points? Mithros is dead on. Up until the end of GWB's first trime I was pretty durn conservative myself. Actually GWB just finished off my Republicanness. It is not just the RW platform sliding further right all the time it is the craziness, silliness and double standards that just make it impossible for any thinking person to deal with it.
    God Bless the Marine Corps.

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