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Thread: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups[W:484,732]

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    Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    And these groups attempt to influence elections, do they not?

    I'm with you that the IRS was wrong to single them out, but let's at least be honest about what the purpose of these groups is.
    It depends on the group. But there is no such thing as a proper noun Tea Party. There are no national leaders. There is no official platform. There is no membership.

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    Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    First you asked "isn't influencing elections the primary purpose of the Tea Party?"
    And here you ask "So these organizations aren't trying to influence elections at all?"

    How about we stake out the middle ground? First, organizations that follow a "Tea Party ideology" are allowed to influence elections so long as it's not their primary purpose. Second, it seems a bit crazy to assume that just because "Tea Party" is in the name, we should subject an organization to greater scrutiny than one that happens to use the word "Progressive."
    I never said they should be subjected to more scrutiny. Look and see who started the thread in the first place.

    But I do think that influencing elections is what TP groups are about. That's not bad necessarily, but it is what they do.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    I never said they should be subjected to more scrutiny.
    No, I didn't mean to imply that - was referring to the IRS.

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    Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Well of course you wouldn't call yourself "Americans who Hate ObamaCare" and list a repeal as your mission statement. But these sorts of groups do exist and do meet the legal requirements as they're currently written.

    For example "Tennesseans for Fair Taxation" has been around since 1996, with a mission "to create a more fair and progressive tax structure that ensures adequate revenues for the benefit of all Tennesseans" and provide social welfare by "educating hundreds of Tennesseans every year on the short and long-term consequences of a tax system built on the backs of the poor."


    These groups have always been able to "shield donors" - the disclosure requirements weren't changed by Citizens United. Citizens United made it legal for corporations and unions to spend money on elections.
    The groups have been able to shield donors who donate to their general funds. However, they couldn't use this money to engage in any political discourse. If they wanted to run adds, they had to either establish an attached PAC or else use funds from donors that was specifically earmarked for such action. These funds were subject to campaign finance law and as such, the organization had to disclose anyone donating to these funds.

    This is a common misunderstanding of Citizens United. Businesses and corporations have always been allowed to engage in politics. They just weren't able to do it with general funds, instead they had to form PACs.

    As to the IRS approving organizations that should not have been approved, this has only become a problem since Citizens United. If you wanted to form a 501(c)(4) for issue advocacy, so what? There was no benefit over a PAC so there was no real reason to apply too much scrutiny.

    After Citizens United these 501(c)(4)s emerged for the sole purpose of laundering dark money into politics. For example, CrossRoads GPS spends more than 80% of their budget on adds, but only declares a small portion of them to be independent expenditures.

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    Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

    Meanwhile, an apology for these IRS transgressions isn't enough.

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    Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    "Get a clue?" Such amazing debating skills you have.

    IRS chairs are appointed for 5 year terms. The last chair was appointed by Bush and confirmed in early 2008. He served through the end of 2012. Presidents don't deman the resignation of IRS chairs because it's important to keep the agency out of politics.... as this scandal proves.
    Is that what this scandal proves, that the IRS stayed out of politics? BTW, Miller is the one resigning, not Shulman.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    Meanwhile, an apology for these IRS transgressions isn't enough.
    Nothing short of Obama's impeachment will be enough for most conservatives.

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    Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    This is a common misunderstanding of Citizens United. Businesses and corporations have always been allowed to engage in politics. They just weren't able to do it with general funds, instead they had to form PACs.
    Allow me to clarify: Citizens United made it legal for corporations and unions to spend money directly on elections.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    The groups have been able to shield donors who donate to their general funds. However, they couldn't use this money to engage in any political discourse.
    The money could indeed be used to engage in political discourse, and it was completely legal to spend millions in an election year without disclosing your donors - that did not change with Citizens United.

    Citizens United basically said that you can't prohibit or restrict corporations/unions from engaging in "independent communications" i.e. independently advocating for candidates in an election. It is because such expenditures were legal under a 501(c)(4) prior to C.U. that they couldn't take corporate donations. After Citizens United, the restriction was lifted. Thus, Citizens United didn't change how the 501(c)(4) worked, or who was shielded and who wasn't, it only allowed corporations and unions to make use of a 501(c)(4).

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    Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    Nothing short of Obama's impeachment will be enough for most conservatives.
    I am already on record as hoping, for the sake of the nation, that this doesn't happen. We're all going to have to wait and see. Surely, if impeachment is justified, you will support this, yes?

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    Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    I am already on record as hoping, for the sake of the nation, that this doesn't happen. We're all going to have to wait and see. Surely, if impeachment is justified, you will support this, yes?
    If Obama did something illegal, he should be dealt with accordingly.

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