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Thread: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups[W:484,732]

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    Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    For one thing, those organizations make diddly squat. Even if they didn't apply for that status, it's hard to imagine they would owe anything.
    awesome. then it should be no problem.

    I just don't buy that "social welfare" groups on either side should be allowed a tax status similar to a charity. the fact that donors aren't disclosed also indicates that 501c4 is probably the result of lobbying by entities with big pockets.

    donate to whoever you want to, and as much as you want, as far as I'm concerned. however, the rest of us who have to live under the system deserve to know who's buying it.

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    Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    awesome. then it should be no problem.

    I just don't buy that "social welfare" groups on either side should be allowed a tax status similar to a charity. the fact that donors aren't disclosed also indicates that 501c4 is probably the result of lobbying by entities with big pockets.

    donate to whoever you want to, and as much as you want, as far as I'm concerned. however, the rest of us who have to live under the system deserve to know who's buying it.
    Theyre non profits. Why should they pay taxes? Why should the govt know who their donors are? People have a right to privacy.

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    Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Theyre non profits. Why should they pay taxes? Why should the govt know who their donors are? People have a right to privacy.
    not when they're buying legislation, IMO. i think a big spotlight needs to be put on all political activity. people pour money into the political process to buy influence, and we deserve to know who they are. we are the ones who have to live with the result.

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    Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

    also, i learned this morning that the person who resigned wasn't running the IRS during all of this.

    Douglas Shulman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    unless Miller was a higher up in the IRS at the time, he's just a fall guy.

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    Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

    How about we get rid of the IRS? At the very least, their power should be severely limited. They have a history of bullying people and businesses, and ruining lives. Do we really want this going on in our government? That's not what they are supposed to do.

    I remember them pulling similar crap in the '90's. There were hearings, but here we go again. Now, they are are probing into the personal lives and politics of people that work for or donate to conservative organizations seeking tax exempt status. Absolutely unforgiveable.

    This has to stop, and this agency needs to be brought under control, for good.

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    Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    The IRS targeted groups that probably should have been targeted, but for the wrong reason. By definition 501(c)(4) groups are not allowed to have a predominatly politial purpose. Instead, that status is reserved for social welfare groups. Good examples of legitimate 501(c)(4) groups are the AARP and the NRA.

    What happened in 2010 was that in the aftermath of Citizens United, corporations were suddenly allowed to contribute unlimited amounts of money to influence political campaigns. However, most corporations and CEO's didn't want to have their names and reputations associated with a candidate or position. They wanted to influence elections anonomously, gaining the benifits of supporting a candidate without the backlash from the other side.

    By the spirit of the law, these groups should have been filed as tax exempt 527's which are intended primariliy to influence elections. By filing as a 527, they would have been allowed unlimited participation in politics and would have been excempt from the lengthy application process. However, they would have had to make their donors public. Instead they filed as 501(c)(4) groups for the sole purpose of hiding their donors.

    In summary: 527's are allowed to be predominatly political, but must release donors. 501(c)(4)'s must not be predominatly political, are much harder to obtain, require far more paperwork, are subject to many more restrictions, but don't have to release donors.

    After 2010 there was an explosion of these groups. Before Citizens' united there were around 1500. That doubled over the next year or so. The biggest push was amoung conservative groups. However, liberal groups were also guilty of this abuse.

    Filing as a 501(c)(4) was an attempt by many of these groups to skirt the law. It's really impossible to read it any other way. The IRS rightly attempted to crack down on this abuse. However, it did it in a very un-American way. The guidleines should have targeted political groups in general, rather than singling out conservative issues.

    This is a significant issue, and it warrents a thorough public investigation. However, it's nothing like Nixon's white house auditing members of the political opposition. For one, the head of the IRS was a Bush appointee.
    Procedural mumbo jumbo, they failed to target liberal groups who should have been targetted. We're not concern about targetting, but the targetting of certain groups and not others in the same category. The IRS allowed Obama-friendly groups to slide through without a glance, but handed non-Obama-friendly groups questionaires that required the production of 500 page responses. And btw, "it's Bush's fault" isn't going to work here. Obama can change any appointee he wants. Appointees are employeed at the pleasure of the President, so get a clue.
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    Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    not when they're buying legislation, IMO. i think a big spotlight needs to be put on all political activity. people pour money into the political process to buy influence, and we deserve to know who they are. we are the ones who have to live with the result.
    Show me some evidence that legislators are taking bribes.

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    Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    The IRS targeted groups that probably should have been targeted, but for the wrong reason. By definition 501(c)(4) groups are not allowed to have a predominatly politial purpose.

    In summary: 527's are allowed to be predominatly political, but must release donors. 501(c)(4)'s must not be predominatly political, are much harder to obtain, require far more paperwork, are subject to many more restrictions, but don't have to release donors.
    I don't think that's actually the case. By definition, 501(c)(4) groups CAN have a predominantly political purpose. The distinction between the two is that 527s are formed with the purpose of influencing elections.

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    Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Procedural mumbo jumbo, they failed to target liberal groups who should have been targetted. We're not concern about targetting, but the targetting of certain groups and not others in the same category. The IRS allowed Obama-friendly groups to slide through without a glance, but handed non-Obama-friendly groups questionaires that required the production of 500 page responses. And btw, "it's Bush's fault" isn't going to work here. Obama can change any appointee he wants. Appointees are employeed at the pleasure of the President, so get a clue.
    "Get a clue?" Such amazing debating skills you have.

    IRS chairs are appointed for 5 year terms. The last chair was appointed by Bush and confirmed in early 2008. He served through the end of 2012. Presidents don't deman the resignation of IRS chairs because it's important to keep the agency out of politics.... as this scandal proves.

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    Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Show me some evidence that legislators are taking bribes.

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