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Thread: A connection between plastic guns and homegrown marijuana

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    Re: A connection between plastic guns and homegrown marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    You're calculating the cost of the printer in the price. That'd be like saying: "That report for school cost me $200 to print".

    In reality the gun's materials cost under $10 once you have the printer ($500-$1200 for the printer, the software is free.)
    I understand about amortizing fixed assets over time and units produced.

    This instance is at an individual level, not a large manufacturer.

    The $30K came from several articles that I have read about this process.

    I believe that the next step will be powdered metal and some type of adhesive binder that can be heated for bonding, not unlike the MIM (Metal Injection Molding) process, which uses heat and pressure.
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    Re: A connection between plastic guns and homegrown marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Good afternoon, SMTA.

    There you go with logic again! How many times do we have to remind you about that? Sheesh! :
    Hello!

    I was actually being more of a smartass than anything else, but thanks.

    The folks who really need to worry are the replacement parts sources, like for automotive parts.
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    Baby sister, I was born game and I intend to go out that way - Rooster Cogburn

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    Re: A connection between plastic guns and homegrown marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I don't understand what the marijuana rulings and the plastic gun issue have in common.
    These plastic guns are "homegrown", if you will.

    The citation to the Raich case demonstrates that homegrown things are subject to the authority of the federal government if those things can be used in the conduct of interstate commerce.

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    Re: A connection between plastic guns and homegrown marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by SMTA View Post
    I understand about amortizing fixed assets over time and units produced.

    This instance is at an individual level, not a large manufacturer.

    The $30K came from several articles that I have read about this process.

    I believe that the next step will be powdered metal and some type of adhesive binder that can be heated for bonding, not unlike the MIM (Metal Injection Molding) process, which uses heat and pressure.
    The point is, nobody is going to be buying 3d printers to print guns. They will however eventually be ubiquitous enough in the average person's home that any citizen could print one for near nothing.

    This is also the first 3d printed gun ever. People keep harping on it for only firing one bullet, and possibly being destroyed afterwards, but that's not the point. Rome was not built in a day.

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    Re: A connection between plastic guns and homegrown marijuana

    I wonder if someone claimed the government would start stepping in to protect gun manufacturers from cheapo home made plastic guns? Oh, and who will be one of the main supporters of these regulations to protect manufacturers? It will be the NRA be3cause their job is to protect gun sales, and the second amendment is only an indirect protection they offer.

    Of course these printers will drop in price. They will also advance into better materials and technology. We know this will happen because it happens with all technology. It may take a couple of decades, but a couple of decades ago you would have spent thousands on a dot matrix printer and today you would be pissed if you had to lift one to toss it our because the pile of crap was in your way. Something as versatile and useful as 3d printing, which is basically manufacturing, is going to be useful and perhaps in every home in a few decades. The products from it will become better and more durable. the designs made to produce products will become better and more versatile. The programs to make the designs will become better and easier to use. Given the internet there will be no real way for the government to prevent the spread of these designs.

    So yes, printable guns are a huge problem for gun manufacturers. Not to mention many other manufacturers who will have to deal with an even cheaper method of production of their products. Prepare to see the republicans and the democrats start going bipartisan on limiting this technology from the start. It is actually a bit dangerous for this useful technology that the first thing people focus on is guns. It looks like they are already building fear about self manufacturing to try and keep these printers prohibitive.

    Still, i would imagine by the time this all hits the fan i will be too old to really care much.

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    Re: A connection between plastic guns and homegrown marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by Republic Now! View Post
    That will change as the technology improves.
    Not in the near future. They're having problems getting 3D printers to print out simple oil water cell synthetic cells. Getting a 3D printer to manufacture Carbon fiber is a long, long, long way from now. Composite materials do not work well with printing. And there is a reason they skipped powder titanium, it's expensive and it's weak.

    If you're a criminal, it's utterly stupid to spend the money on a printer and materials to get a shoddy one shot pistol when you can simply buy a stolen pistol for under $300.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: A connection between plastic guns and homegrown marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    You're calculating the cost of the printer in the price. That'd be like saying: "That report for school cost me $200 to print".

    In reality the gun's materials cost under $10 once you have the printer ($500-$1200 for the printer, the software is free.)
    And if you're a criminal, why would you spend that kind of money on a one shot pistol when you can get a real firearm for much less?

    Furthermore, making a plastic pistol on a $500 3D printer is just asking for trouble. Like a hospital bill. When the thing fails in your hand.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: A connection between plastic guns and homegrown marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post
    Of course these printers will drop in price. They will also advance into better materials and technology. We know this will happen because it happens with all technology. It may take a couple of decades, but a couple of decades ago you would have spent thousands on a dot matrix printer and today you would be pissed if you had to lift one to toss it our because the pile of crap was in your way. Something as versatile and useful as 3d printing, which is basically manufacturing, is going to be useful and perhaps in every home in a few decades. The products from it will become better and more durable. the designs made to produce products will become better and more versatile. The programs to make the designs will become better and easier to use. Given the internet there will be no real way for the government to prevent the spread of these designs.
    The real problem is when they start merging 3D printers with computer controlled lathing machines and extruders at a cheap price.

    The lathe can build the parts that have major stress easily from blocks of raw steel, the extruders can lay down fibers such as thin glass that then go to the 3D printer for production of things like Carbon Fiber. The 3D printer alone is not a big issue, it's the merging of it with other machines that when paired with design software can produce reliable, relatively affordable, safe firearms. It wouldn't be surprised that such a machine would also have a robotic arm and welder for automatic final assembly. You could literally load the raw materials, press go and get a rifle out in half an hour. But we are not there yet, nor will we be for a while.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: A connection between plastic guns and homegrown marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    And



    How this would be enforced, though, is beyond me. There is a first amendment issue here, as well as the fact that plans for homemade printed guns could be printed outside of our borders, where these laws would have no effect. And, of course, there is a second amendment issue as well. What do you think?

    Article is here
    .

    NOTE: I have already downloaded the plans for the gun, known as the Liberator, but don't intend to make one. This gun is good for ONE ROUND ONLY, if that. The firing of the bullet pretty much renders the weapon useless for future firings, due to destruction of the plastic material inside the barrel. And, at thousands of dollars to make a single weapon, this gun is pretty much economically unfeasable.

    NOTE2: If you do happen to make this gun, you will be breaking federal law if you do not put a slug of iron or steel that weighs at least 6 ounces somewhere in it, so it can be detected at airports, etc.
    I don't believe there are any federal laws prohibiting the manufacture of firearms for personal use.

    I could be wrong but would need to the statute that prohibits this.
    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I do not believe any amount of people committing suicide with firearms justifies requiring firearm sellers to preach to customers about suicide regardless if it would or wouldn't save those who commit suicide.

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    Re: A connection between plastic guns and homegrown marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post
    I wonder if someone claimed the government would start stepping in to protect gun manufacturers from cheapo home made plastic guns? Oh, and who will be one of the main supporters of these regulations to protect manufacturers? It will be the NRA be3cause their job is to protect gun sales, and the second amendment is only an indirect protection they offer.

    Of course these printers will drop in price. They will also advance into better materials and technology. We know this will happen because it happens with all technology. It may take a couple of decades, but a couple of decades ago you would have spent thousands on a dot matrix printer and today you would be pissed if you had to lift one to toss it our because the pile of crap was in your way. Something as versatile and useful as 3d printing, which is basically manufacturing, is going to be useful and perhaps in every home in a few decades. The products from it will become better and more durable. the designs made to produce products will become better and more versatile. The programs to make the designs will become better and easier to use. Given the internet there will be no real way for the government to prevent the spread of these designs.

    So yes, printable guns are a huge problem for gun manufacturers. Not to mention many other manufacturers who will have to deal with an even cheaper method of production of their products. Prepare to see the republicans and the democrats start going bipartisan on limiting this technology from the start. It is actually a bit dangerous for this useful technology that the first thing people focus on is guns. It looks like they are already building fear about self manufacturing to try and keep these printers prohibitive.

    Still, i would imagine by the time this all hits the fan i will be too old to really care much.
    Great points!

    I have long argued that the moment the gun business comes into conflict with gun rights, NRA gun rights members will finally see who the NRA really stands for. This may be that issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I do not believe any amount of people committing suicide with firearms justifies requiring firearm sellers to preach to customers about suicide regardless if it would or wouldn't save those who commit suicide.

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