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Thread: UN: No clear proof of Syria chemical arms use

  1. #31
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    Re: UN: No clear proof of Syria chemical arms use

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    All the while the people that suffer the most as usual on a 21st century battlefield are the innocents.
    Innocents suffer a lot less than past centuries.

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    Re: UN: No clear proof of Syria chemical arms use

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    So just like Iraq?
    No, everyone knows Saddam used chemical weapons to commit genocide against the Kurds, killing towns of 10k... women and children dead in the streets.

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    Re: UN: No clear proof of Syria chemical arms use

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    No, everyone knows Saddam used chemical weapons to commit genocide against the Kurds, killing towns of 10k... women and children dead in the streets.
    I am talking about the build up of Iraq 2003.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

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    Re: UN: No clear proof of Syria chemical arms use

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    I am talking about the build up of Iraq 2003.
    You were talking about the use of chemical weapons.

    If you are referring to intelligence agencies, then your statement is even more ignorant than I imagined. Intel from all over the world believed Saddam had weapons and a program. Why? Because, as everyone now knows, he was actively attempting to fake such a stock and program in order to fend off the Iranians.

    Do you actually know anything about this? Or do you just make stuff up as you go and hope that no one will expose you.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 05-09-13 at 01:15 PM.

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    Re: UN: No clear proof of Syria chemical arms use

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    You were talking about the use of chemical weapons.

    If you are referring to intelligence agencies, then your statement is even more ignorant than I imagined. Intel from all over the world believed Saddam had weapons and a program. Why? Because, as everyone now knows, he was actively attempting to fake such a stock and program in order to fend of the Iranians.

    Do you actually know anything about this?
    I was not talking about the US of Chemical Weapons. I was talking about the intel that was claiming such usage or havage. Go back to here to see what I was talking about and don't try and put words in my mouth.

    Actually Intel all over the world didn't believe it. US's intel came from a guy named Curveball.

    It doesn't matter what Saddam said or did. The lack of intel led the US into Iraq. So to claim we suspect Syria did this or did that.. isn't clear cut proof. We suspected Iraq (Saddam) had chemical weapons and were still building them. We had no proof he did or didn't, It was all circumstantial. To argue usage of force of that is damn right idiocy.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

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    Re: UN: No clear proof of Syria chemical arms use

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    I was not talking about the US of Chemical Weapons.
    That's what makes your statement even more pathetic than I first thought. You don't seem to be able to grasp a very simple idea:

    When one is a twice genocidal dictator (killing 200k and 50k), firing on no-fly zones meant to stop further genocide, violating 17 chapter 7 unscrs, starved 400k children by selling baby food and institutionalizing rape...

    Then faking a WMD program just might cause someone to do something.

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    Re: UN: No clear proof of Syria chemical arms use

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Innocents suffer a lot less than past centuries.
    I'm sure that's comforting to the parents of dead children.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: UN: No clear proof of Syria chemical arms use

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    I'm sure that's comforting to the parents of dead children.
    I'm just correcting a grossly false implication. When a post is disconnected from reality, I like to comment on that.

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    Re: UN: No clear proof of Syria chemical arms use

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post
    It is a good thing we don't have dimwitted cowboy in charge here in the US or else we would have glassed the place based on whatever evidence he wanted to use to justify his war. I swear that boys dogs were talking to him and telling him some crazy things. We must stop the muslims from killing all the muslim targets in the country. Seriously, how are we going to go to war if all the muslims are dead already?
    I'm all for them killing each other, but Obama shouldn't make comments that he knows he isn't going to back up with action, because it makes him look like a pussy. The Kim Jun Un's of the world are watching.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: UN: No clear proof of Syria chemical arms use

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Several points:

    1. I agree that an arms embargo should include all outside states. To garner Iran's cooperation, Iran almost certainly will need to have a seat at the proverbial table in the international conference.
    Realistically, I don't see that happening. Even getting the Saudis to stay out will be hard. And Qatar will find a way.

    2. Currently the parties to the conflict are in a situation that approaches stalemate, though I think the government's hold is slowly eroding, so it isn't quite a stalemate. With neither party really having a qualitative edge and neither party expecting imminent victory, a carefully-designed diplomatic framework that includes an arms embargo, might have the potential to shift the calculus to diplomacy and away from force. If so, civilians who have suffered enormously as the parties have fought ever more viciously with little regard for civilians, could finally gain a measure of respite.
    The introduction of Hezbollah to the fight I think is changing things. Where Assad would probably have gone down reliably with the next year or so, hardened fighters from Hezbollah are making their presence known. Things could change if Iran ships more weapons and Hezbollah starts pushing back against the rebels in force.

    3. To have any chance at reaching a legitimate path forward, all the parties to the conflict will need to have a role at the conference. Although I personally believe the Assad regime has lost legitimacy, it still commands allegiance of the minority Alawite and minority Shia populations, hence it cannot be excluded without the risk that a post-Assad transition would unravel in a fresh insurgency.
    Not to mention Christian population. Christians in Syria have owned their security and stability to Assad and his father for decades. Crying shame that Syria went to Iran. Many of Assad's secular traits would have made him a friend of the US. Still, having Assad at the table is going to make things extremely difficult, if not possible. What a mess.

    4. Aside from an agreed political path forward, which might require general forgiveness/reconciliation for the parties to the conflict, an important element of a viable transition would include robust protections for Syria's various ethnic and religious groups.
    This works more in East Asian Muslim nations. When did amnesty work in a Middle Eastern nation? Even Kuwait had issues and they're pretty tolerant. I just don't see this happening. I agree it would help, but 500 years of that particular brands of Islam doesn't bode well. This ain't Indonesia.

    I'm only gravitating towards the surgical strikes because Israel proved the air defense net is far weaker than expected.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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