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Thread: 'Appalling irresponsibility': Senior scientists attack Chinese researchers for

  1. #31
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    'Appalling irresponsibility': Senior scientists attack Chinese researchers for

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    It is incredibly difficult for a virus to spread out of a laboratory. Life isn't a movie. Influenza is only airborne when aerosolized by a cough or sneeze. Petri dishes don't sneeze, even when you drop them on the floor. Even skin contact is insufficient, the virus pretty much has to enter the body through the mouth or nose. (or eyes I guess?) You'd basically have to spill the petri dish, get the stuff on your skin, and then touch your face with that exposed part.

    Just how retarded do you think workers in a lab containing infectious diseases are?
    Uh ya, they were testing the mutation by infecting animals...

    And retarded enough that their actions were deemed "APPALLINGLY irresponsible"...

    There's a reason why testing on airborne viruses are performed in bio safety level 3 or higher facilities.

    It only needs to spread to a single farmer getting his pig looked at, and it's out in the wild.

    Now, I'm not freaking out about this here, but at the same time to pretend these (shockingly common) occurrences are nothing to be concerned about, seems like the feeling of invincibility that one sees in a youth.

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    Re: 'Appalling irresponsibility': Senior scientists attack Chinese researchers for

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    Uh ya, they were testing the mutation by infecting animals...

    And retarded enough that their actions were deemed "APPALLINGLY irresponsible"...

    There's a reason why testing on airborne viruses are performed in bio safety level 3 or higher facilities.

    It only needs to spread to a single farmer getting his pig looked at, and it's out in the wild.

    Now, I'm not freaking out about this here, but at the same time to pretend these (shockingly common) occurrences are nothing to be concerned about, seems like the feeling of invincibility that one sees in a youth.
    A different senior scientist told you global warming was a serious concern for humanity. Yet you seem to have come to a different conclusion.

    Influenza isn't airborne unless it's made to be airborne. Via some sort of pressurized release like a cough or sneeze. It doesn't leap out of a petri dish into the air, it isn't capable of that.

    Is the risk zero? No, of course not. The risk of falling down in your shower and sustaining a lethal head injury is also non-zero, but for some reason we all still have showers.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    'Appalling irresponsibility': Senior scientists attack Chinese researchers for

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    A different senior scientist told you global warming was a serious concern for humanity. Yet you seem to have come to a different conclusion.
    You are comparing a real science (virology) to a pseudo-science...

    Also, humanity has survived storms, droughts, and even deep freezes before, and often with casualties... But, since people can't control the weather.

    Influenza isn't airborne unless it's made to be airborne. Via some sort of pressurized release like a cough or sneeze. It doesn't leap out of a petri dish into the air, it isn't capable of that.
    That's not the only way for a virus to spread beyond the facility, and most viruses in a lab for animals are viruses that cannot transmit to humans anyway.

    Just the fact that it can be transmit to humans means the research needs to be in bio safety conditions, in the conditions it's bio safety level 3 lab as a requirement.

    Is the risk zero? No, of course not. The risk of falling down in your shower and sustaining a lethal head injury is also non-zero, but for some reason we all still have showers.
    Ya, when the consequences of accidental screwup could mean the deaths of millions then how much risk are you willing to put up with??

    Are you familiar with the track records of these companies making drugs and vaccines for viruses??

    Let's say it's not good under strict conditions, what are you going to expect from people who are used to working with viruses that typically only infect animals?

    What's worse, let's say the virus starts out, as not being serious, it is possible, though equally unlikely, that the virus could mutate from the wild to become more virulent... But it was all from an "accident" that they didn't realize they caused.

    There's a certain level of risk that is simply unacceptable, that's why there's legislation and standards set to ensure that the work can be done with minimal risk beyond the lab.

    What kind of extra risks do you feel should be acceptable while working with viruses and mutations that can cross infect between animals and people with no vaccine available??

    Like, if the lab was studying airborne Ebola from a hospitals general bathroom, how concerned would you be?

    I'm just curious at what point this nonchalance would shift into modest concern?

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    Re: 'Appalling irresponsibility': Senior scientists attack Chinese researchers for

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    You are comparing a real science (virology) to a pseudo-science...

    Also, humanity has survived storms, droughts, and even deep freezes before, and often with casualties... But, since people can't control the weather.
    Humanity has also survived disease. This doesn't mean we can just ignore disease. Which is important, I'm not suggesting we be cavalier with research on infectious diseases. Just that the risk isn't as severe as many are thinking in this thread.



    That's not the only way for a virus to spread beyond the facility, and most viruses in a lab for animals are viruses that cannot transmit to humans anyway.

    Just the fact that it can be transmit to humans means the research needs to be in bio safety conditions, in the conditions it's bio safety level 3 lab as a requirement.



    Ya, when the consequences of accidental screwup could mean the deaths of millions then how much risk are you willing to put up with??

    Are you familiar with the track records of these companies making drugs and vaccines for viruses??

    Let's say it's not good under strict conditions, what are you going to expect from people who are used to working with viruses that typically only infect animals?

    What's worse, let's say the virus starts out, as not being serious, it is possible, though equally unlikely, that the virus could mutate from the wild to become more virulent... But it was all from an "accident" that they didn't realize they caused.

    There's a certain level of risk that is simply unacceptable, that's why there's legislation and standards set to ensure that the work can be done with minimal risk beyond the lab.

    What kind of extra risks do you feel should be acceptable while working with viruses and mutations that can cross infect between animals and people with no vaccine available??

    Like, if the lab was studying airborne Ebola from a hospitals general bathroom, how concerned would you be?

    I'm just curious at what point this nonchalance would shift into modest concern?
    When a lab starts studying diseases that don't exist in ridiculous manners, I'll definitely be concerned! But let's stick to reality, shall we?

    A nuclear reactor is physically capable of melting down. However, modern reactors are treated very carefully. Substantial design effort is put into making sure that it doesn't, and a lot of oversight is involved. Plans exist in case something does go wrong.

    An outbreak from this lab is very unlikely, and plans are in place to deal with it if something does go wrong. I'm not being nonchalant. This is something we can handle. We've handled worse diseases successfully.

    I don't think the worst case scenario is millions of deaths. A particularly dangerous strain would be dealt with via stronger vaccination efforts long before it came to that. The flu has been around for a very long time, we're getting pretty good at reacting to it.

    This is a research effort that deserves scrutiny and care. It's not a ticking time bomb that is likely to doom us all.

    The study, which was carried out in a laboratory with the second highest security level to prevent accidental escape, resulted in 127 different viral hybrids between H5N1 and H1N1, five of which were able to pass by airborne transmission between laboratory guinea pigs.
    Can you tell me what this means? What procedures are in place?
    Because best as I can tell, this means level 3 biosafety. Exactly the level you specified as being a requirement.

    423px-Influenza_virus_research.jpg

    How likely is this guy to be infected?
    Last edited by Deuce; 05-11-13 at 08:20 PM.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    'Appalling irresponsibility': Senior scientists attack Chinese researchers for

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Humanity has also survived disease. This doesn't mean we can just ignore disease. Which is important, I'm not suggesting we be cavalier with research on infectious diseases. Just that the risk isn't as severe as many are thinking in this thread.





    When a lab starts studying diseases that don't exist in ridiculous manners, I'll definitely be concerned! But let's stick to reality, shall we?

    A nuclear reactor is physically capable of melting down. However, modern reactors are treated very carefully. Substantial design effort is put into making sure that it doesn't, and a lot of oversight is involved. Plans exist in case something does go wrong.

    An outbreak from this lab is very unlikely, and plans are in place to deal with it if something does go wrong. I'm not being nonchalant. This is something we can handle. We've handled worse diseases successfully.

    I don't think the worst case scenario is millions of deaths. A particularly dangerous strain would be dealt with via stronger vaccination efforts long before it came to that. The flu has been around for a very long time, we're getting pretty good at reacting to it.

    This is a research effort that deserves scrutiny and care. It's not a ticking time bomb that is likely to doom us all.



    Can you tell me what this means? What procedures are in place?
    Because best as I can tell, this means level 3 biosafety. Exactly the level you specified as being a requirement.

    423px-Influenza_virus_research.jpg

    How likely is this guy to be infected?
    What it means is that I was misreading the irresponsible factor... And that we have been much closer to the same page than I had thought prior.

    Last year was a ferret that had saved humanity, this time is transmission studies using ferrets that are the issue.

    Anything else I was going to add is moot due to what I had misread, which was creating novel viruses for testing in labs not equipped to handle the task (level 1 facilities), as opposed to transmission studies, which is quite similar to your nuclear facility analogy.

    That said, my position was on the basis of other examples of irresponsibility coming out of bio labs.

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