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Thread: Reid: More Funding Needed To Prevent ObamaCare From Becoming 'Train Wreck'

  1. #61
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    Re: Reid: More Funding Needed To Prevent ObamaCare From Becoming 'Train Wreck'

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    uva (university of virginia), 2010

    UVa Study: Surgical Patients On Medicaid Are 13% More Likely To Die Than Those Without Insurance

    they don't call it the ghetto of health care for nothing
    The study is debunked here: Wash. Times Pushes Flawed Study On Medicaid To Attack Democrats' Health Care Policies
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    Re: Reid: More Funding Needed To Prevent ObamaCare From Becoming 'Train Wreck'

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Unsupported? You mean 14,000 people didn't die in Paris?
    Iceland isn't much more than a village of 200,000 or so?
    Sweden and Finland's healthcare isn't a problem due to socialism?
    Yes. Make a well-supported argument. Show me how the 14,000 prove PPACA is a "train wreck."
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    Re: Reid: More Funding Needed To Prevent ObamaCare From Becoming 'Train Wreck'

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Steel View Post
    Train wreck?

    I've been to train wrecks (literally, I've worked for railroads.) Want to know something about train wrecks? They get fixed. All the broken equipment and all the torn-up track gets fixed and put back together. Want to know something else? They happen because something was wrong in the first place. Want to know what it is? Free-market, profit-driven health care. It doesn't work. It serves too few, costs them too much and delivers poor outcomes. We're better-off without it but until that day comes, we can deal with a few train wrecks.

    Free-market health care. That's no way to run a railroad.
    But, if you KNOW a train wreck is about to happen, wouldn't you do something to stop it? Surely, you wouldn't do things to CREATE the train wreck.

    jus' sayin'
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Reid: More Funding Needed To Prevent ObamaCare From Becoming 'Train Wreck'

    The study is debunked here
    let's see...

    ya got the university of virginia on the one hand...

    and david brock on the other

    LOL!

    whatever floats your boat, floyd

    but tell david to quit beating up his boyfriend

  5. #65
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    Re: Reid: More Funding Needed To Prevent ObamaCare From Becoming 'Train Wreck'

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Steel View Post
    Yes. Make a well-supported argument. Show me how the 14,000 prove PPACA is a "train wreck."
    It seems 14,000 dead people doesn't reveal a catastrophic failure of a system.

    Socialist schemes implode... always.
    France's Health-Care System Is Going Broke
    January 3, 2013

    The health system exceeds its budget by billions of euros each year, and in the face of rising costs, taxpayer-funded benefits such as spa treatments, which the French have long justified as preventive care, now look more like expendable luxuries. “Reform is needed fast,” Hodin says. “The most optimistic believe this system can survive another five to six years. The less optimistic don’t think it will last more than three.”

    The government projects the health-care system’s 2013 shortfall will be about €5.1 billion, down from €11.6 billion in 2010. Yet that forecast may be optimistic, since it’s based on the assumption that the economy will grow 0.8 percent—double the European Commission’s estimate. France’s system “is simply unaffordable, unsustainable, and the manner in which it’s financed is a huge burden on the economy,” says Nicholas Spiro, managing director of Spiro Sovereign Strategy in London. “The French are not being realistic.”

    France's Health-Care System Is Going Broke - Businessweek
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

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    Re: Reid: More Funding Needed To Prevent ObamaCare From Becoming 'Train Wreck'

    ron fournier's natl journal thursday:

    At Tuesday’s press conference, President Obama delivered an unfocused eight-minute defense of his central legislative accomplishment in office – the Affordable Care Act. In the face of intraparty criticism that implementation of his health care law will be a “train wreck,” new polls showing support for the law near all-time lows, and even the Democratic nominee in next week’s House special election calling the law “extremely problematic”– there’s plenty of evidence piling up to believe health care will be a political millstone for Democrats in 2014.

    While the debate over Obama’s health care law isn’t a life-or-death battle, health care affects voter livelihood (and their voting decisions) like few other issues do. And there are clear signs that if premiums go up, businesses are forced to change how they insure their employees, and implementation of the law is uneven, the potential for political consequences are significant. In the 2010 midterms, Democrats suffered a historic landslide when the debate over health care was abstract. The stakes could be even higher when voters have first-hand experience with its effects.
    nyt here points out how even congress members and staff want an exemption from implementation

    Lawmakers, aides may get Obamacare exemption - John Bresnahan and Jake Sherman - POLITICO.com

    In both examples [Bush in Iraq and Obama chasing his white whale], the presidential sales pitch ended up being overhyped, with promises made that couldn’t realistically be achieved. Obama’s health care law was designed to expand access to the uninsured. But to win support for the law, Obama claimed it would lower costs, improve the quality of care and not force anyone off their current health care plan. That’s not shaping up to be the case. Premiums are rising, employer uncertainty is growing and voters aren’t viewing the law favorably – with many not even aware of the frontloaded benefits already in place. And even on the access side, the law of unintended consequences is kicking in: Some large retail companies are cutting back employee hours so they won’t have to offer health insurance. That’s not good for the economy or health care access.

    Likewise, the advocates for repeal may now hold the upper hand politically, especially if there’s blowback as the health care law gets implemented. Every problem with health care, fairly or unfairly, will be blamed on Democrats. Like Republicans with Iraq, Democrats own the issue, and the headwinds coming with it in future elections.
    Obama's Legacy: A Health Care Law That Hurts His Party - NationalJournal.com

    you don't look well...

    maybe you'd rather talk about george bush?

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    Re: Reid: More Funding Needed To Prevent ObamaCare From Becoming 'Train Wreck'

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Steel View Post
    Are you serious? Did you actually mean to post what you did?
    just the latest one that happens to be in the news:

    Oregon Study: Medicaid 'Had No Significant Effect' On Health Outcomes vs. Being Uninsured

    But as you dig back through, these studies pop up pretty consistently:

    Is Having Medicaid Better Than Being Uninsured? Maybe Not.

    But this trend is pretty much as old as government interference in the health market:

    For example, one study that looked at old people before and immediately after the establishment of Medicare showed that putting the entire over-65 population on health insurance produced zero detectable improvement in their mortality rates.

    Etc.

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    Re: Reid: More Funding Needed To Prevent ObamaCare From Becoming 'Train Wreck'

    pre existing conditions insurance plan---just another broken rail on the max baucus express

    states blindsided by dhs sebelius a week ago friday---the 100,000 americans currently covered by obamacare's early preexisting implementation will continued to be covered...

    "up to a ceiling"

    and you know what that means---people tossed out, costs up, care down...

    in feb, for example, ms sebelius implemented a freeze on new app's

    all this couldn't come at a worse time---the white house is working so hard to convince the states that it's a reliable partner

    but here, already, after only our first date, we're dumped with the bill

    this is what inevitably occurs when you make promises greater than the amount of money in circulation

    barack the keynesian obama is gonna face in the next two years at least two dozen separate instances of you-lied-to-us tied to this ahab-like obsession he took us all on for 2 single minded years

    you'll see

    and many of those betrayals, like the one below, bring catastrophic consequences

    States: 'Blindsided' by plan to shift costs of 'uninsurables' to them under ObamaCare | Fox News

    worry

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    Re: Reid: More Funding Needed To Prevent ObamaCare From Becoming 'Train Wreck'

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Steel View Post
    1. It's Media Matters

    2. Did you even read the article you linked? Because their "debunking" that I see basically boils down to two arguments: A) maybe it was something else but we have no evidence of that and B) well, Medicaid patients are sicker to begin with so it's not fair to compare.

    Then they attempt to paint the authors as stating that the study is flawed but it turns out no, they don't, and they continue to stand by the conclusions. On the contrary, they cite six other studies which confirm their results that there is no credible evidence that Medicaid results in worse or equivalent health outcomes as being uninsured.



    Look, I am one of the first to point out the flaws of the ad-sourcinem attack. Every source has a bias, and sources that acknowledge theirs are more honest than those that do not. But there are sources which cease to have ideological predispositions and begin to have partisan blinders. At that point, data takes second place to confirmation bias - and mediamatters leads that pack with that crowd. You might do better seeking other source material.

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    Re: Reid: More Funding Needed To Prevent ObamaCare From Becoming 'Train Wreck'

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    But, if you KNOW a train wreck is about to happen, wouldn't you do something to stop it? Surely, you wouldn't do things to CREATE the train wreck.

    jus' sayin'
    Let's not force the analogy too far. The Republicans created the problems we have with PPACA. They obstructed and obfuscated the process of developing health care for all and they distorted and diverted its supporters efforts to create it. Don't blame the Democrats for whatever problems it faces. Blame the Republicans.
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