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Thread: Spring Slowdown Paints Ugly Picture For Jobs: ADP

  1. #71
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    Re: Spring Slowdown Paints Ugly Picture For Jobs: ADP

    Quote Originally Posted by Spadesof2 View Post
    You said:

    Claiming that 1) No Child Left Behind is a conservative 'brain child' -- Proven wrong by facts.
    Sorry, but the facts are not on your side....

    "...Margret Spellings worked for six years as Mr. Bush's education adviser in Texas, pushing policies on early reading and student accountability. They became the model for the federal law, No Child Left Behind, that Spellings helped put together from the White House after Mr. Bush's election in 2000...."
    Bush Taps Spellings For Education - CBS News

    You claim that 2) the GOP wants to cherry pick what science is taught in schools and provide links saying that a representative from Texas proposed passing a bill that would require the federal spending on NSF to be “in the interests of the United States to advance the national health, prosperity, or welfare and to secure the national defense by promoting the progress of science.”

    You assume that this represents the whole GOP, which doesn't make sense, and then go on to claim that this is somehow 'cherry picking' what will be taught. If this were to pass, it would do no such thing. A gross misuse of words on your part.
    It's not only well documented but it's been repeatedly in the news for the last 10 years that conservatives have an anti-science agenda on everything from stem cell research to global warming to evolution and even vaccines.

    The claim that 3) business will relocate from states where schools are allowed to teach certain religious classes is completely unsubstantiated, and providing links that show how there are not enough skilled workers in no way whatsoever helps your case.
    Don't make a strawman out of it. I specifically said, "Businesses who need an educated workforce are not going to locate in a city or state with an uneducated workforce." Take Toyota for example....

    Workforce issues may have derailed plant - USATODAY.com

    You claim that 4) this supposed lack of education brought about by the GOP's supposed attack on education, which so far is completely unsubstantiated, you claim that this will cause business to move or hire immigrants which will cause that state to lose jobs. A state does not lose jobs when hiring immigrants fyi.

    And you have absolutely no shred of evidence to support your point.

    Why were the standards lowered do you think? And it's complete folly to assume that students who are taught a few religious courses cannot think critically.

    You have not shown anything where conservatives have "demonized teachers, defunded education and tried to dumb down the educational ciriculum" (great spelling btw) and it's up to you to provide evidence that they have. And that, if they have, that this is indicative of the entire GOP. You have shown none of either.
    Blah, blah, blah. In case you haven't noticed, the only one not providing a shred of evidence in this entire discussion is you.

  2. #72
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    Re: Spring Slowdown Paints Ugly Picture For Jobs: ADP

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Sorry, but the facts are not on your side....

    "...Margret Spellings worked for six years as Mr. Bush's education adviser in Texas, pushing policies on early reading and student accountability. They became the model for the federal law, No Child Left Behind, that Spellings helped put together from the White House after Mr. Bush's election in 2000...."
    Bush Taps Spellings For Education - CBS News

    It's not only well documented but it's been repeatedly in the news for the last 10 years that conservatives have an anti-science agenda on everything from stem cell research to global warming to evolution and even vaccines.

    Don't make a strawman out of it. I specifically said, "Businesses who need an educated workforce are not going to locate in a city or state with an uneducated workforce." Take Toyota for example....

    Workforce issues may have derailed plant - USATODAY.com

    Blah, blah, blah. In case you haven't noticed, the only one not providing a shred of evidence in this entire discussion is you.
    While no child left behind did not live up to expectations it was at least an attempt to fix a broken education system where about 50% of urban youths do not graduate high school. This is a deplorable position for a country that relies on high skilled highly paid (compared to most of the world) workers.

    It is interesting that Bush is attacked for trying to fix education and tried also to get immigration passed, Obama has not little or nothing in nearly 5 years in office on these two issues.

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    Re: Spring Slowdown Paints Ugly Picture For Jobs: ADP

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    While no child left behind did not live up to expectations it was at least an attempt to fix a broken education system where about 50% of urban youths do not graduate high school. This is a deplorable position for a country that relies on high skilled highly paid (compared to most of the world) workers.

    It is interesting that Bush is attacked for trying to fix education and tried also to get immigration passed, Obama has not little or nothing in nearly 5 years in office on these two issues.
    I feel bad attacking Bush but the fact is he was more interested in appointing his cronies whether they were qualified or not, than he was in fixing anything.

    Here's a list of Obama's achievements on education but without a congress there isn't much he can do.....

    1.BROAD POLICY:
    2.Enacted largest reform of student aid in 40 years.
    3.Health Care and Education Affordability Reconciliation Act of 2010.
    4.Established President’s Advisory Council on Financial Capability to assist in financial education for all Americans.
    5.FUNDING:
    6.Increased funding for land-grant college.
    7.Provided means for students struggling to make college loan payments to refinance.
    8.TARGETED ACTIONS:
    9.Expanded Pell grants for low-income students.
    10.Expanded Pell grant pool by eliminating private lender subsidies for student loans.

    http://obamaachievements.org/list#top


    As a side: My state of Utah refused to join the union unless they were allowed state soveriegnty over education. That still holds true,...unless they accept federal funding for education.... which they do...and in doing so, lost state sovereignty over education. Now they are too dependent on federal funding to go back.
    Last edited by Moot; 05-04-13 at 08:30 PM.

  4. #74
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    Re: Spring Slowdown Paints Ugly Picture For Jobs: ADP

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    I feel bad attacking Bush but the fact is he was more interested in appointing his cronies whether they were qualified or not, than he was in fixing anything.

    Here's a list of Obama's achievements on education but without a congress there isn't much he can do.....

    1.BROAD POLICY:
    2.Enacted largest reform of student aid in 40 years.
    3.Health Care and Education Affordability Reconciliation Act of 2010.
    4.Established President’s Advisory Council on Financial Capability to assist in financial education for all Americans.
    5.FUNDING:
    6.Increased funding for land-grant college.
    7.Provided means for students struggling to make college loan payments to refinance.
    8.TARGETED ACTIONS:
    9.Expanded Pell grants for low-income students.
    10.Expanded Pell grant pool by eliminating private lender subsidies for student loans.

    Obama Administration’s Achievements (Thus Far) » Obama's Achievements Center


    As a side: My state of Utah refused to join the union unless they were allowed state soveriegnty over education. That still holds true,...unless they accept federal funding for education.... which they do...and in doing so, lost state sovereignty over education. Now they are too dependent on federal funding to go back.
    The list is mostly about aid for college students. I think we need to do a better job K-12. It is a disgrace that this country has such a high rate of high school dropouts. Those kids have little chance of success in the modern world.

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    Re: Spring Slowdown Paints Ugly Picture For Jobs: ADP

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    It is interesting that Bush is attacked for trying to fix education...Obama has not little or nothing in nearly 5 years in office on these two issues.
    Not renewing No Child Left Behind, and granting waivers to state which request them, automatically puts Obama far ahead of Bush on the educational front.

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    Re: Spring Slowdown Paints Ugly Picture For Jobs: ADP

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    Not renewing No Child Left Behind, and granting waivers to state which request them, automatically puts Obama far ahead of Bush on the educational front.
    What positive things did he replace it with???

  7. #77
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    Re: Spring Slowdown Paints Ugly Picture For Jobs: ADP

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    What positive things did he replace it with???
    Removing NCLB WAS the positive.

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    Re: Spring Slowdown Paints Ugly Picture For Jobs: ADP

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Sorry, but the facts are not on your side....

    "...Margret Spellings worked for six years as Mr. Bush's education adviser in Texas, pushing policies on early reading and student accountability. They became the model for the federal law, No Child Left Behind, that Spellings helped put together from the White House after Mr. Bush's election in 2000...."
    Bush Taps Spellings For Education - CBS News
    I've been over this. If it is a conservative brain child then why did the democrats outvote the republicans even though they had fewer numbers? Stop trying to scew the facts to fit your warped history. Even if it was a conservative idea to begin with, the dems latched onto it harder than the conservatives did.

    It's not only well documented but it's been repeatedly in the news for the last 10 years that conservatives have an anti-science agenda on everything from stem cell research to global warming to evolution and even vaccines.
    Another debate for another forum section, so I'll just have to disagree with you here. An argument could be made for each case you mentioned, just not here.

    Don't make a strawman out of it. I specifically said, "Businesses who need an educated workforce are not going to locate in a city or state with an uneducated workforce."
    There was no straw man, I'm just connecting the dots for you. You think that allowing schools to teach religious courses is anti-science, and you think that this is causing kids to become uneducated, which you think causes businesses to leave those areas. Which is wrong, wrong, and right.

    Blah, blah, blah. In case you haven't noticed, the only one not providing a shred of evidence in this entire discussion is you.
    You are the one arguing the positive here (conservatives are anti-education), so I don't need a shred of proof on my side... that's up to you. And you have failed so far to provide anything sufficient. If you don't want to debate your ideas then don't bring them up, 'blah blah blah' just doesn't cut it.

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    Re: Spring Slowdown Paints Ugly Picture For Jobs: ADP

    Quote Originally Posted by Spadesof2 View Post
    I've been over this. If it is a conservative brain child then why did the democrats outvote the republicans even though they had fewer numbers? Stop trying to scew the facts to fit your warped history. Even if it was a conservative idea to begin with, the dems latched onto it harder than the conservatives did.

    Another debate for another forum section, so I'll just have to disagree with you here. An argument could be made for each case you mentioned, just not here.


    There was no straw man, I'm just connecting the dots for you. You think that allowing schools to teach religious courses is anti-science, and you think that this is causing kids to become uneducated, which you think causes businesses to leave those areas. Which is wrong, wrong, and right.

    You are the one arguing the positive here (conservatives are anti-education), so I don't need a shred of proof on my side... that's up to you. And you have failed so far to provide anything sufficient. If you don't want to debate your ideas then don't bring them up, 'blah blah blah' just doesn't cut it.
    Just saying no and tossing out petty insults doesn't prove anything let alone prove me wrong. So until you start providing some factual credible evidence of your own, then it's pointless to continue having a discussion with you.

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    Re: Spring Slowdown Paints Ugly Picture For Jobs: ADP

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Just saying no and tossing out petty insults doesn't prove anything let alone prove me wrong. So until you start providing some factual credible evidence of your own, then it's pointless to continue having a discussion with you.
    Do you even know what arguing a positive/negative is?

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