• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Boston PD Arrest 3 More Suspects in Bombing Plot -- Uh-oh!

AlabamaPaul said:
The words used are "normal" just before committing a suicidal act by terrorists...
Click to expand...

Also used in lots of other situations. In fact, your example is a rare usage of it compared to most.
 
Redress said:
It is a religious statement, and some of his believed motivations fit with him using it.
Click to expand...

On its own, it is a religious statement. When it is the hallmark of Al-Qaeda operatives shouted right before the commission of a terrorist attack, it becomes political.

Context does matter.
 
Redress said:
Also used in lots of other situations. In fact, your example is a rare usage of it compared to most.
Click to expand...

Used before an act such as that at Fort Hood? Hmmm, that's a bit of a stretch...
 
Redress said:
No, it is being precise.
Click to expand...

Not at all. because you are intentionally ignoring it has specific contextual relations to militant Islam.

PS contextual relations sounds kinda dirty
 
Last edited:
StringBean said:
On its own, it is a religious statement. When it is the hallmark of Al-Qaeda operatives shouted right before the commission of a terrorist attack, it becomes political.

Context does matter.
Click to expand...

Absolutely context matters. However, you are making a supposition, not necessarily born out by evidence.
 
Redress said:
Absolutely context matters. However, you are making a supposition, not necessarily born out by evidence.
Click to expand...

Witnesses provided statements as to the usage, and there are 13 dead along with 30 wounded, yet, you cannot come to see it as a terrorist action?
 
StringBean said:
A guy, known to have correspondence with Al-Qaeda leader Anwar al-Awlaki, yells "Allahu Akbar" right before killing a bunch of soldiers to be deployed to Afghanistan.

Apolitical?
Click to expand...

And not tied to jihadists? <Insert obligatory and also sincere statement that there are millions of peace-loving, decent, wonderful people of the Muslim faith.>

Fort Hood was a terrorist attack.
 
AlabamaPaul said:
Witnesses provided statements as to the usage, and there are 13 dead along with 30 wounded, yet, you cannot come to see it as a terrorist action?
Click to expand...

Guy seemed rather loopie. Which is what I think they mean with work place violence. It would be akin to some guy experiancing a breakdown, carving a swastika in his forehead, and going postal.

The problem with that though is his extensive contacts with radical islamists. So it's hard to say what happened here, but politics likely played a role in what it was eventually designated
 
the pc crowd scrupulously avoids looking at religion

The U.S. military's just-released report into the Fort Hood shootings spends 86 pages detailing various slipups by Army officers but not once mentions Major Nidal Hasan by name or even discusses whether the killings may have had anything to do with the suspect's view of his Muslim faith. And as Congress opens two days of hearings on Wednesday into the Pentagon probe of the Nov. 5 attack that left 13 dead, lawmakers want explanations for that omission.

John Lehman, a member of the 9/11 commission and Navy Secretary during the Reagan Administration, says a reluctance to cause offense by citing Hasan's view of his Muslim faith and the U.S. military's activities in Muslim countries as a possible trigger for his alleged rampage reflects a problem that has gotten worse in the 40 years that Lehman has spent in and around the U.S. military. The Pentagon report's silence on Islamic extremism "shows you how deeply entrenched the values of political correctness have become," he told TIME on Tuesday. "It's definitely getting worse, and is now so ingrained that people no longer smirk when it happens."

The apparent lack of curiosity into what allegedly drove Hasan to kill isn't in keeping with the military's ethos; it's a remarkable omission for the U.S. armed forces, whose young officers are often ordered to read Sun Tzu's The Art of War with its command to know your enemy. In midcareer, they study the contrast between capabilities and intentions, which is why they aren't afraid of a British nuclear weapon but do fear the prospect of Iran getting one.

Yet the leaders of the two-month Pentagon review, former Army Secretary Togo West and the Navy's onetime top admiral, Vernon Clark, told reporters last week that they didn't drill down into Hasan's motives. "Our concern is with actions and effects, not necessarily with motivations," West said. Added Clark: "We certainly do not cite a particular group." Part of their reticence, they said, was to avoid running afoul of the criminal probe of Hasan that is now under way. Both are declining interview requests before their congressional testimony, a Pentagon spokesman said.

But without a motive, there would have been no murder. Hasan wore his radical Islamic faith and its jihadist tendencies in the same way he wore his Army uniform. He allegedly proselytized within the ranks, spoke out against the wars his Army was waging in Muslim countries and shouted "Allahu akbar" (God is great) as he gunned down his fellow soldiers.
Click to expand...

Fort Hood Report: No Mention of Islam, Hasan Not Named - TIME

that is, in determining that hasan's actions were an incident of workplace violence, the pentagon determinedly ignored motivation
 
today, ap:

Russian agents placed the elder Boston bombing suspect under surveillance during a six-month visit to southern Russia last year, then scrambled to find him when he suddenly disappeared after police killed a Canadian jihadist, a security official told The Associated Press.

The security official with the Anti-Extremism Center, a federal agency under Russia's Interior Ministry, confirmed the Russians shared their concerns. He told the AP that Russian agents were watching Tsarnaev, and that they searched for him when he disappeared two days after the July 2012 death of the Canadian man, who had joined the Islamic insurgency in the region. The official spoke only on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to the news media.

Security officials suspected ties between Tsarnaev and the Canadian - an ethnic Russian named William Plotnikov - according to the Novaya Gazeta newspaper, which is known for its independence and investigative reporting, and cited an unnamed official with the Anti-Extremism Center, which tracks militants. The newspaper said the men had social networking ties that brought Tsarnaev to the attention of Russian security services for the first time in late 2010.

It certainly wouldn't be surprising if the men had met. Both were amateur boxers of roughly the same age whose families had moved from Russia to North America when they were teenagers. In recent years, both had turned to Islam and expressed radical beliefs. And both had traveled to Dagestan, a republic of some 3 million people. The AP could not independently confirm whether the two men had communicated on social networks or crossed paths either in Dagestan or in Toronto, where Plotnikov had lived with his parents and where Tsarnaev had an aunt.

Plotnikov had been detained in Dagestan in December 2010 on suspicion of having ties to the militants and during his interrogation was forced to hand over a list of social networking friends from the United States and Canada who like him had once lived in Russia, Novaya Gazeta reported. The newspaper said Tsarnaev's name was on that list, bringing him for the first time to the attention of Russia's secret services.

The official with Russia's Anti-Extremism Center said Tsarnaev was filmed attending a mosque in Makhachkala whose worshippers adhere to a more radical strain of Islam. The official would give no further details about what the Russian security services knew about Tsarnaev's activities in Dagestan or about any possible connection to Plotnikov.

Novaya Gazeta said Tsarnaev was also seen in the company of Mahmud Nidal - a man who was both Palestinian and Kumyk, one of the dozens of ethnic groups living in Dagestan - and who was believed to have ties to Islamic militants in the southern Russian region.

Shortly after Plotnikov identified Tsarnaev during his December 2010 interrogation, the Russian secret services, the FSB, studied Tsarnaev's pages on social networking sites and asked the FBI for more information, the Russian newspaper said. The FBI has acknowledged receiving the request.
Click to expand...

My Way News - Russia had elder Boston suspect under surveillance

if the ostrich pulls its head out it will see what's happening
 
AlabamaPaul said:
Witnesses provided statements as to the usage, and there are 13 dead along with 30 wounded, yet, you cannot come to see it as a terrorist action?
Click to expand...

We are not discussing how I see it, but how the government sees it. The government has laws, procedures, and protections it has to abide by. To call t terrorism, you have to make assumptions based on not enough evidence. If it makes you feel better to call it terrorism, feel free. It will mot bother me in the least. I expect the government however to be more exact, precise, and to follow what it has written as law. A government that can just declare any one a terrorist would be a bad thing.
 
Redress said:
It was politically motivated. Try again.
Click to expand...

Really. El Quaeda is a political group? They were making a political statement with 9/11? Well, again we don't agree. The 9/11 attack was carried out, not to make a political statement, but to disrupt our economy (and other economies throughout the world) and advance Islamic fundamentalism.

They don't care about our government or our politics. They care about Islamic fundamentalism.
 
MaggieD said:
Really. El Quaeda is a political group? They were making a political statement with 9/11? Well, again we don't agree. The 9/11 attack was carried out, not to make a political statement, but to disrupt our economy (and other economies throughout the world) and advance Islamic fundamentalism.

They don't care about our government or our politics. They care about Islamic fundamentalism.
Click to expand...


is "El Quaeda" al qaeda's official mariachi band?

 
Redress said:
Well, in the case of 9/11, it is easy as the motivation was, at least partly, US policy in regards to Israel.
Click to expand...

And what policies would those be specifically?
 
Last edited:
another dhs screwup

One of three college students arrested Wednesday in the Boston Marathon bombings case was allowed to return to the United States from Kazakhstan in January despite not having a valid student visa, a federal law enforcement official told The Associated Press. Authorities charged the student -- a friend and classmate of one of the men accused of setting off the deadly explosions -- with helping after the attacks to remove a laptop and backpack from the bombing suspect's dormitory room before the FBI searched it.

The government acknowledged that U.S. Customs and Border Protection was unaware that the student was no longer in school when he was let back into the United States. The disclosure was another instance of possible lapses by the federal government in the months before the Boston bombings. The Obama administration earlier this week announced an internal review of how U.S. intelligence agencies shared sensitive information and whether the government could have disrupted the attack. Republicans in Congress have promised oversight hearings starting next week.

Federal authorities on Wednesday arrested three college friends of Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, a bombing suspect, including Azamat Tazhayakov, a friend and classmate of Tsarnaev's at the University of Massachusetts Dartmouth. Tazhayakov left the U.S. in December and returned Jan. 20. But in early January, his student-visa status was terminated because he was academically dismissed from the university, the official told the AP. The law enforcement official said information about Tazhayakov's status was in the Homeland Security Department's Student and Exchange Visitor Information System, called SEVIS, when Tazhayakov arrived in New York in January.

The official spoke on the condition of anonymity because this person was not authorized to discuss details of Tazhayakov's immigration history.

DHS spokesman Peter Boogaard said when Tazhayakov arrived on Jan. 20, Customs and Border Protection officials had not been notified that he was no longer a student. Boogaard said in an emailed statement that DHS had recently reformed the student visa system to ensure that CBP would have access to all relevant student visa information. Later, however, he clarified the statement to say that the reform was ongoing.
Click to expand...

Student arrested in Boston bombings case entered US without visa, official says | Fox News

napolitano's gotta go
 
spanky said:
College students? I wonder how much of my tax dollars went to their education, housing and food.
Click to expand...

I just heard that one of these students visa's had expired, left America and the Obama's Customs and Immigration allowed him to reenter the USA back in January with no valid visa.

It seems the current administration isn't enforcing our immigration laws. I wonder who else have been allowed in to America without a visa ?
 
ChrisL said:
This truly is breaking news. Just heard it. This is all I can find so far. I have to get back to work, but if anyone has any updates to add, please do it. Thanks. I'll check back later!

Boston Police Take 3 More Suspects Into Custody For Marathon Bombings

The three suspects being held by the police are college students who allegedly helped Dzhokhar Tsarnaev after the double bombing near the finish line on April 15, the Boston Globe reported.

Tsarnaev, 19, was a student at the University of Massachusetts Dartmouth. His brother, Tamerlan Tsarnaev, 26, was killed during a shootout and attempted getaway from police in Watertown four days after the Marathon bombing.

The Globe reports that the new suspects are allegedly linked to Dzhokhar, who's in a Massachusetts prison hospital and charged with conspiring to use a weapon of mass destruction.

The attack at the Marathon killed three people and wounded more than 260 others.

This is a developing story -- check back for updates.
Click to expand...

Clumsy assed college ****-ups. Gotta laugh at those who were damned determined that this was all absolutely, without a doubt orchestrated by highly skilled, state or organizational sponsored terrorism.
 
poweRob said:
Clumsy assed college ****-ups. Gotta laugh at those who were damned determined that this was absolutely without a doubt orchestrated by highly skilled, state or organizational sponsored terrorism.
Click to expand...

Why would you say that? Now THAT is silly, to ignore a possible terror threat?
 
ChrisL said:
Why would you say that? Now THAT is silly, to ignore a possible terror threat?
Click to expand...

I don't know what you are asking. What I'm saying is that these two young dumbasses got the recipe off the internet, did what they did, and their dorm buddies tried to hide the evidence. This is all a far cry from those who instantly ran to a theory that it was al quaeda themselves or Saudi sponsored or was due to highly trained people. You had Glenn Beck... who is probably still pushing this massive MASSIVE conspiracy theory and people on this forum who lapped that crap right up.
 
I think the whole thing was simply too stupid and random to be a legit organized effort. I also think it is too big to be just a moron who convinced his little brother. Even the friends cleaning up the room has a bizarre tint to it. I think the older brother was a moron being used by an organization to conduct a test run. He was told to try to get his roomates to clean up the room just to see if such was possible (it turns out, it was). In sum: this was a test run utilizing a moron to see what would happen.
 
Deuce said:
Translation: Muslim + violence = terrorism?

You have to commit an act of terrorism to be called a terrorist. In my world, shooting at enemy soldiers is not terrorism. In your world, all of our combat troops are terrorists.
Click to expand...

Look at all these enemy soldiers. . .

US bomb blunder kills 30 at Afghan wedding | World news | The Guardian

168 children killed in drone strikes in Pakistan since start of campaign - Telegraph

Of course, the families of all those killed don't feel bad because the gummint that killed them claimed they were "collateral damage."

As long as you call those you kill "collateral damage", the killing isn't terrorism.
 
MaggieD said:
Really. El Quaeda is a political group? They were making a political statement with 9/11? Well, again we don't agree. The 9/11 attack was carried out, not to make a political statement, but to disrupt our economy (and other economies throughout the world) and advance Islamic fundamentalism.

They don't care about our government or our politics. They care about Islamic fundamentalism.
Click to expand...

Wonder how the US gummint id's members of AQ. Do AQ members carry an ID card w/them showing rank and position in AQ?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom