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Drug Agency Lowers Age For Next-Day Birth Control [W:297]

ernst barkmann said:
the FDA is part of the executive branch, there is not no one elected to it, its run my appointed bureaucrats....who are not accountable to the people.

they have no authority to issues any orders to the people, no authority over the rights of parents.

this is another step of government outside the Constitution.

as i stated to earlier, i have no problem with the drug being available, but government does not dictate to the people.

the Constitution gave government no authority over the people at all.

in following the constitution.... government has only authority in d.c. and were the feds and the state have agreed on, and that pertains to buildings only.

government has no authority on private or state property to come and go at will and harass the people.
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You've got it backwards. The FDA isn't issuing orders; they're revoking them

Until now, the FDA prevented vendors from selling MAP's to teens without a prescription. Now. the vendor has their constitutional freedom to sell it to teens.
 
sangha said:
He wants the govt to decide who can buy what.

Some people will justify unlimited amounts of govt power so long as it is consistent with their moral code
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well its simple, i will explain it to you, government has no authority to say to parents, ...your child can buy this drug, because we say its OK.

if the government chooses to say the purchase of alcohol is OK for a 15 yr, does that make make it legal to go over parents heads, if they dont wish it sold to their children

because a 15 yr old cannot vote, be in the military, carry a firearms, society has determined, that children below 18 are not responsible enough to exercise those rights in a responsible manner so their parents act for them.
 
sangha said:
You've got it backwards. The FDA isn't issuing orders; they're revoking them

Until now, the FDA prevented vendors from selling MAP's to teens without a prescription. Now. the vendor has their constitutional freedom to sell it to teens.
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really.....i guess i will take my 15 yr old kid down the local gun shop, and let them exercise their constitutional freedom to sell to my kid a pistol.
 
ernst barkmann said:
well its simple, i will explain it to you, government has no authority to say to parents, ...your child can buy this drug, because we say its OK.
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The govt isn't saying anything to parents. This decision has nothing to do with the govt saying anything to parent.

if the government chooses to say the purchase of alcohol is OK for a 15 yr, does that make make it legal to go over parents heads, if they dont wish it sold to their children

because a 15 yr old cannot vote, be in the military, carry a firearms, society has determined, that children below 18 are not responsible enough to exercise those rights in a responsible manner so their parents act for them.
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The age of consent laws in the various states proves that you're wrong about this.
 
ernst barkmann said:
really.....i guess i will take my 15 yr old kid down the local gun shop, and let them exercise their constitutional freedom to sell to my kid a pistol.
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Where does the constitution say the govt can prohibit the selling of guns, or contraception, to anyone?
 
sangha said:
No, it's not "overdoses" of anything. According to what I've read, it is not possible to overdose on Plan B, nor does it do any damage to a woman's fertility. The side effects are unpleasant, but nothing more
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Didn't see 'overdose' in there once.

And changing a woman's hormonal balance repeatedly can indeed affect her fertility.

So again....you implied it was the same as aspirin, ibuprophen, etc. Please try to remain linear in some way.
 
Lursa said:
Didn't see 'overdose' in there once.
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Exactly!

They listed the effects of this. I didn't see "death" anywhere



And changing a woman's hormonal balance repeatedly can indeed affect her fertility.
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We aren't talking about what some unspecified hormone can do. We're talking about a specific drug, and there is no evidence that it can affect a woman's fertility


So again....you implied it was the same as aspirin, ibuprophen, etc. Please try to remain linear in some way.
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Actually, it's not exactly like those. From the evidence I've seen, it's much safer than aspirin, ibuprofen, etc
 
Northern Light said:
I don't support giving parents that authority. My own parents were pro-life and I'm pro-choice. I wasn't sexually active as a teenager, but if I was and needed my parents' permission to get the morning after pill, I can guarantee you they'd say no. Same goes for an abortion. Besides which, my parents finding out I had pre-marital sex would lead to great shame and potential disownment. My reproductive status is none of their business.

If they're mature enough to be having sex and maybe get pregnant, then they're mature enough to use the morning after pill.

My only concern is the lack of research about this pill for girls at age 15. But the FDA has been wreckless in recent years, so they'll just let the public experiment until something goes wrong and then modify the drug policy, as usual.
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I disagree pretty strongly. Until a kid is out of their parents' house, the parents should have authority over any medical decisions. Even a teenager's sexual activity is a parent's business, especially since a 15 year-old is practically incapable of independently raising a child if they or a partner gets pregnant. Just because a teen knows how to have sex doesn't mean they're mature enough to be having sex.
 
Northern Light said:
No not at all. But is it really her parents' choice whether or not she becomes implanted? I agree that sex is serious business and people should have a level head about it, but if a 15 year old is undertaking the seriousness of having sex then shouldn't she also be given the freedom to choose the MAP if she's exposed to insemination?

I don't see how leaving it up to the parents is efficient, since the MAP is very time sensitive. If her parents say no then she could end up pregnant.



I've seen no evidence that the MAP can cause death.



Actually, it's not getting pregnant. Pregnancy occurs at implantation. The MAP disrupts implantation. The whole point of taking it is to NOT get pregnant.

I think the risks are being overblown here. I mean, the long-term studies are not out, but the MAP does not adversely affect women older than 15; and it's one to two doses max. It's not a long-term supplement.



No you're not hitting a sore spot, I just don't find your arguments very convincing. Teens have bad judgment so... if they use bad judgment and risk potential pregnancy, we shouldn't let them use good judgment and get the MAP to maybe prevent a pregnancy they're unprepared for?

Can you demonstrate that the MAP is bad judgment? That's the hole in your argument that I'm not quite understanding. AFAIK there's no such thing as MAP abuse.
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Getting pregnant to begin with is the first indication of poor judgement. Not facing up to one's mistakes and attempting to hiding it from parents....more poor judgment. Oh, afraid of punishment? If you are old enough to have sex, you are old enough to face up to your responsibilities....like not lying to your family.

And again...sure, it's safe for most...but not for all and if there are side effects, that leads to more lying or hiding it...which can lead to serious health issues if ignored.

Teens will just pop these things more to escape the consequences of their actions than consider the possible affects on their health.

And believe me, I am the LAST person who encourages more humans on this planet. I am looking at this with the overall picture in view: lie and have sex, be stupid and get pregnant, lie and take pill to fix, and maybe hide complications and get sick or die.

With no prescription or permission required, girls can do this over and over. I guess I shouldn't care that anyone this stupid does become infertile or even die.
 
sangha said:
Where does the constitution say the govt can prohibit the selling of guns, or contraception, to anyone?
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my point is, that if a child can buy drugs (this drug is not an aspirin), why can they not buy a weapon?

the answer is simple the 15yr old is a child, and is not fully responsible to own a weapon, or take drugs.

the government is lowering the age of purchase to a minor., minors are under the supervision of adults at that age.

question ?....if my child wishes to purchase the drug, without my approval, but i use my parental rights to stop my child, can the government take action against me?
 
sangha said:
Exactly!

They listed the effects of this. I didn't see "death" anywhere





We aren't talking about what some unspecified hormone can do. We're talking about a specific drug, and there is no evidence that it can affect a woman's fertility




Actually, it's not exactly like those. From the evidence I've seen, it's much safer than aspirin, ibuprofen, etc
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Unspecified?? Didn't read link obviously. Estrogen and progesterone. Jeebus.

And what evidence have you seen that makes it much safer that aspirin and ibuprophen? Link? And let's keep in mind that millions more have taken those than Plan B. I don't remember most of the things I listed from the article being side effects of those?
 
ernst barkmann said:
my point is, that if a child can buy drugs (this drug is not an aspirin), why can they not buy a weapon?

the answer is simple the 15yr old is a child, and is not fully responsible to own a weapon, or take drugs.

the government is lowering the age of purchase to a minor., minors are under the supervision of adults at that age.

question ?....if my child wishes to purchase the drug, without my approval, but i use my parental rights to stop my child, can the government take action against me?
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You're trying to have it both ways. You want the govt to be able to tell vendors what they can sell to who when it comes to contraceptives, but not when it comes to guns.
 
sangha said:
You're trying to have it both ways. You want the govt to be able to tell vendors what they can sell to who when it comes to contraceptives, but not when it comes to guns.
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what i am saying is, you dont sell to minors...be it a firearm or drugs.

question ?....if my child wishes to purchase the drug, without my approval, but i use my parental rights to stop my child, can the government take action against me?
 
Lursa said:
Unspecified?? Didn't read link obviously. Estrogen and progesterone. Jeebus.

And what evidence have you seen that makes it much safer that aspirin and ibuprophen? Link? And let's keep in mind that millions more have taken those than Plan B. I don't remember most of the things I listed from the article being side effects of those?
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There is no evidence that one can die from an overdose from Plan B, nor any evidence of it affecting a woman's fertility

As far as it being safer than some other drugs, people have died from overdoses of aspirin and ibuprofen, and both have more serious side effects.
 
ernst barkmann said:
what i am saying is, you dont sell to minors...be it a firearm or drugs.
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So you are in favor of Big Nanny govt!!


question ?....if my child wishes to purchase the drug, without my approval, but i use my parental rights to stop my child, can the government take action against me?
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How do you plan of preventing your child from purchasing it if it is legal for her to do so?
 
sangha said:
The drug is not used on a long-term basis so it's safe to say that there are not effects from a use that is not actually occurring.
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There is nothing to stop a girl from taking it after every time she has sex. As a contraceptive and it's not designed to be taken progressively. That kind of hormonal disruption can screw with her physically and mentally.

Believe me, PMS is real.
 
sangha said:
There is no evidence that one can die from an overdose from Plan B, nor any evidence of it affecting a woman's fertility

As far as it being safer than some other drugs, people have died from overdoses of aspirin and ibuprofen, and both have more serious side effects.
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Again, what is with 'overdose?' Where did you see that? Is someone suggesting that girls will take handfuls of these things? Not that I've seen.

So what else have you got? Ignored the 'specific hormones' of course.
 
ernst barkmann said:
my point is, that if a child can buy drugs (this drug is not an aspirin), why can they not buy a weapon?

the answer is simple the 15yr old is a child, and is not fully responsible to own a weapon, or take drugs.

the government is lowering the age of purchase to a minor., minors are under the supervision of adults at that age.

question ?....if my child wishes to purchase the drug, without my approval, but i use my parental rights to stop my child, can the government take action against me?
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The "government" wouldn't know unless your child told them. Wouldn't that be your child taking action against you?..................
 
Lursa said:
There is nothing to stop a girl from taking it after every time she has sex.
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Oh yes there is - the price

As a contraceptive and it's not designed to be taken progressively.
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And there's another reason why no one will take it regularly

That kind of hormonal disruption can screw with her physically and mentally.

Believe me, PMS is real.
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There is no evidence of any long-term health problem with taking Plan B

It does not cause PMS. Stop being absurd
 
sangha said:
YEs, we must punish children who have sex!!!

Thanks for demonstrating why parents should not be informed
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I'll tell you what, when you have a daughter you can buy her a crate of these pills, and send her out into the streets to **** every guy in town. And it'll be your problem, and not ours. And then you can celebrate the liberal way of life.
 
Lursa said:
Again, what is with 'overdose?' Where did you see that? Is someone suggesting that girls will take handfuls of these things? Not that I've seen.

So what else have you got? Ignored the 'specific hormones' of course.
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You're the one who brought up the possibility of overdosing

Lursa said:
It is overdoses of 2 different hormones which, if overused (like as a contraceptive) can disrupt and damage a woman's future fertility.
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And you're the one who is suggesting that girls will take more than one pill.

And I addressed the specific hormones issue, but I'll spell it out for you this time. Read this slowly

There is no evidence that Plan B has any serious effect on a womans fertility
 
American said:
I'll tell you what, when you have a daughter you can buy her a crate of these pills, and send her out into the streets to **** every guy in town. And it'll be your problem, and not ours. And then you can celebrate the liberal way of life.
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I accept your surrender! :lol:
 
sangha said:
Oh yes there is - the price



And there's another reason why no one will take it regularly



There is no evidence of any long-term health problem with taking Plan B

It does not cause PMS. Stop being absurd
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I never said it caused PMS, can you read? I said that constant changes in hormonal balance cause physical and mental changes in women. PMS is already one of those things..

And what does that mean, 'what' is a reason it wont be taken regularly?

As for long term....just how long has it been around? Any woman ever on the Pill will tell you it affects her hormonal balance and can prevent pregnancy in the future. Keep messing with that balance....of course it can affect you if abused.
 
sangha said:
So you are in favor of Big Nanny govt!!
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government job is to protect, rights and the life's of people, the child does not have a right to purchase because i have parental rights over the minor, and government is not to interfere with my parental rights, or advocate for things which could be harmful to minors.

sangha said:
How do you plan of preventing your child from purchasing it if it is legal for her to do so?
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the child is minor not an adult, my parental rights, have authority in this situation.

several years back, a child went to school, and the parents were unaware the child was pregnant.

the school during school hours send the child to a clinic for an abortion.

the parents found out about it, and complained to the school , which the school replied they have authority to do what they will with the child while at school.

again.......if my child wishes to purchase the drug, without my approval, but i use my parental rights to stop my child, can the government take action against me ....if my child reports it to the police? ...........please answer this question.
 
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