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Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sports

Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Tucker Case said:
In a world where this kind of thing:

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Exists, the only fantasy that exists is a delusional belief that someone cannot be killed for being gay.
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While I don't agree with it, I really see no danger created by people holding signs up publicly. In fact, it would be a better world if the people who would kill someone for being gay just held up a sign and simply satisfied themselves with being offensive.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Anagram said:
Well they all have similar roles to Jason Collins. You might not have said no value, but you have said he's a nobody and a terrible player. Yet he and players like him continue to get contracts. There is a role for these people in the NBA.
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and no one has said there isn't. but guys like him are not a rare breed. that makes his chances at getting picked up at 34 a lot less likely.

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1. In the world of professional sports...he is a "nobody". until this announcement relatively few people outside of his immediate circle of coaches and fans even knew who he was.

2. look at his stats. he is a good player and better than 99% of the population but by comparison to other NBA players, he is terrible
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Anagram said:
You're also simplifying their role too much. It isn't just to foul people. I could foul Dwight Howard at the end of the game, but it isn't going to make him afraid to attack the basket on the next possession. Collins and others play a type of aggressive defense to make them hesitant to go up against them. It's why Collins was so successful at stopping Howard in the playoffs two years ago.
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given the number of fouls that Collins racked up during limited playing time...he wasn't very successful at making people afraid to attack the basket either ;)
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Tucker Case said:
Let's look at the facts: Things that become a topic of national conversation are, by their very nature, a huge deal. Things which are not a huge deal do NOT become a topic of national conversation.
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a bit of equivocating here: What we are talking about is very much akin to Bornstein's (sp) notions of celebrity and pseudo-event vs a person of legitimate notoriety and and an event of real importance. With the former, it's an event simply because people have been talking about it with the press covering the issue simply because people are talking about it. With the later, there is an actual issue of importance driving the interest in the person or story.

Case in point: Spears having a mental breakdown and shaving her head has no real importance, besides what is driven by the public's reaction to it. Obama announcing US involvement in Syria carries actual merit and importance, despite people talking about it, or not

So people simply talking about it doesn't actually lend it any more real noteworthiness than a Kim K. vag shot
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

OscarB63 said:
and no one has said there isn't. but guys like him are not a rare breed. that makes his chances at getting picked up at 34 a lot less likely.

Bolded:

1. In the world of professional sports...he is a "nobody". until this announcement relatively few people outside of his immediate circle of coaches and fans even knew who he was.
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2. look at his stats. he is a good player and better than 99% of the population but by comparison to other NBA players, he is terrible
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I disagree with this. His stats are not good, but he top quality defense for a center and has turned that into a longer career than the vast majority of NBA players get. There is a reason that GM's sign him and others like Mohammad and Thomas year after year, because guys like him are a rare breed.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Dr. Chuckles said:
While I don't agree with it, I really see no danger created by people holding signs up publicly. In fact, it would be a better world if the people who would kill someone for being gay just held up a sign and simply satisfied themselves with being offensive.
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True, but in a world with that kind of virulent anti-gay sentiment, and the fact that there have been people attacked and murdered for being gay in the past, there are no assurances that holding up a sign is all that will ever be done.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

OscarB63 said:
given the number of fouls that Collins racked up during limited playing time...he wasn't very successful at making people afraid to attack the basket either ;)
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Exceedingly incorrect. That is his job, to make people who attack the basket pay. Just look at what ESPN's Hollinger said about his defense before this announcement.

Scouting report
+ Elite low-post defender who stymies big centers with size and smarts.
+ Physical. Great at drawing offensive fouls. Awful rebounder. Ponderously slow.
+ Horrid finisher. No handle or post game. Will occasionally make a 12-footer.

Analysis
Collins hardly played until the Hawks dusted him off for the playoffs, where he played impressive defense and did shockingly little else. Collins averaged just 5.1 points per 40 minutes, shot 40 percent, rebounded like a guard and had nearly as many fouls as points.

That's a D-League résumé, and not a particularly good one. But one skill offset all those negatives: Synergy rated Collins as the best defender on the Hawks and one of the best in the league. He doesn't look like he's doing much, but he's big, knows exactly where to be and excels at taking charges.
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Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Dr. Chuckles said:
a bit of equivocating here: What we are talking about is very much akin to Bornstein's (sp) notions of celebrity and pseudo-event vs a person of legitimate notoriety and and an event of real importance. With the former, it's an event simply because people have been talking about it with the press covering the issue simply because people are talking about it. With the later, there is an actual issue of importance driving the interest in the person or story.

Case in point: Spears having a mental breakdown and shaving her head has no real importance, besides what is driven by the public's reaction to it. Obama announcing US involvement in Syria carries actual merit and importance, despite people talking about it, or not

So people simply talking about it doesn't actually lend it any more real noteworthiness than a Kim K. vag shot
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Pseudo-events are not the "topic of national conversation", they are entertaining tidbits that get a laugh around the watercooler. This is not a psuedo-event.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Anagram said:
Exceedingly incorrect. That is his job, to make people who attack the basket pay. Just look at what ESPN's Hollinger said about his defense before this announcement.
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so wait. is it his job to make them pay when they come to the basket or make them afraid to come to the basket? if it's the former, you have a point. if it's the later, you don't

Scouting report

Awful rebounder. Ponderously slow.
Horrid finisher. No handle or post game. Will occasionally make a 12-footer.

Analysis
Collins hardly played until the Hawks dusted him off for the playoffs, where he played impressive defense and did shockingly little else. Collins averaged just 5.1 points per 40 minutes, shot 40 percent, rebounded like a guard and had nearly as many fouls as points.

That's a D-League résumé, and not a particularly good one.
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If you were a team looking to pick-up a back-up center...is this the kind of scouting report that would impress you enough to offer a 34 y/o a contract?
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Tucker Case said:
Pseudo-events are not the "topic of national conversation", they are entertaining tidbits that get a laugh around the watercooler. This is not a psuedo-event.
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That is not how Boorstein defines it at all. In fact, he cites FDR's handling the press as the bench mark for pseudo-events in american politics, and generally defines presidential debates as such (due to their overly controlled nature and the fact no debate actually takes place)
 
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Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

OscarB63 said:
so wait. is it his job to make them pay when they come to the basket or make them afraid to come to the basket? if it's the former, you have a point. if it's the later, you don't
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Well its both actually. And Collins is elite at both of them.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Mason66 said:
I know this is a different subject, but how could you posible know how Jesús hugged somebody?

There were no poloroid cameras around back then.
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If it wasn't true would a group called the retar crew make a rap song about it?

 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Anagram said:
Well its both actually. And Collins is elite at both of them.
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sorry...if he was "elite" at making people afraid to come to the basket...they'd stop coming as often and he'd not have nearly as many fouls as points ;)
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

OscarB63 said:
If you were a team looking to pick-up a back-up center...is this the kind of scouting report that would impress you enough to offer a 34 y/o a contract?
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Well considering the rest of the quote said, "Synergy rated Collins as the best defender on the Hawks and one of the best in the league," I definitely would.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Dr. Chuckles said:
That is not how Boorstein defines it at all
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That's not a definition, it's an observation.

But it is also true that this event does serve a purpose in real life... for people who are fearful about how society will view them if they come out it provides a direct benefit. That's why it's national news.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

When all the dust settles and we all catch our breath I think we will all realize we owe Jason Collins a big thanks for raising awareness for what the guy at the end of the bench actually does.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

OscarB63 said:
sorry...if he was "elite" at making people afraid to come to the basket...they'd stop coming as often and he'd not have nearly as many fouls as points ;)
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Yes he would. He fouls somebody twice in the 10 minutes he plays and they don't try again.

Honestly, why do you think Collins has made 33 million dollars playing basketball and started 71 playoff games? Do you think you know more about basketball than the GMs who keep resigning him?
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Anagram said:
Well considering the rest of the quote said, "Synergy rated Collins as the best defender on the Hawks and one of the best in the league," I definitely would.
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whatever dude. If you want a guy who is "awful", "horrid" and "ponderously slow" .............
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

OscarB63 said:
whatever dude. If you want a guy who is "awful", "horrid" and "ponderously slow" .............
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The combination is why he is just a role-player.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

OscarB63 said:
whatever dude. If you want a guy who is "awful", "horrid" and "ponderously slow" .............
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Well the Celtics did. And Jason Collins has had one of the best +/- of centers every year since he was drafted. Even this year he was positive while playing on the Celtics before their comeback and then joining the Wizards.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Anagram said:
Yes he would. He fouls somebody twice in the 10 minutes he plays and they don't try again.

Honestly, why do you think Collins has made 33 million dollars playing basketball and started 71 playoff games? Do you think you know more about basketball than the GMs who keep resigning him?
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hey, I get it dude...you have a massive hard-on for the guy because he had a couple of good years playing for your favorite team. I feel the same way about Kevin McHale ;)
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Tucker Case said:
That's not a definition, it's an observation.
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"Pseudo-events are not the "topic of national conversation"" is clearly trying to define the term. But even if it was simply an observation, it would also still be wrong



But it is also true that this event does serve a purpose in real life... for people who are fearful about how society will view them if they come out it provides a direct benefit. That's why it's national news.
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I'm not buying that. America isn't generally hostile towards homosexuals these days and the current reactive nature of some makes it unlikely people are going to be honest about it, even if they are just unsure what to say about it.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

tererun said:
If it wasn't true would a group called the retar crew make a rap song about it?

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I got money on the christian side huggers if they ever have a gang war with the Bronies.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Dr. Chuckles said:
"Pseudo-events are not the "topic of national conversation"" is clearly trying to define the term.
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No, it was an observation. I do not define things by saying what they aren't, that would be retarded.

But even if it was simply an observation, it would also still be wrong
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Aside from the fact that it's correct, what's wrong about it?





I'm not buying that.
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Bully for you. Why do you think you have to buy something for it to be true? It's very arrogant.


America isn't generally hostile towards homosexuals these days and the current reactive nature of some makes it unlikely people are going to be honest about it, even if they are just unsure what to say about it.
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I see that you have taken all of your understanding of what it is like to be a gay person in America and applied it to your decision to arbitrarily deny reality.
 
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