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Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sports

Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Zyphlin said:
Oh, and I don't know if some in the thread don't watch the NBA....but having a big guy at the end of your bench that racks up fouls, especially at the end of games, but doesn't give up "and 1's" while doing it is a somewhat valuable spot.
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Don't know, I'd rather have a big guy at the end of the bench who can actually play defense and block shots without racking up fouls..but whatever.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Gimmesometruth said:
So the argument is that his decision to come out is not important because he is not the greatest basketball player EVAH and it doesn't matter because he will not be destitute for coming out.....if this had made him a martyr then it would be significant, but since he is alive...meh.
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no, the arguement is that this isn't as monumental an event as many would have us believe due to the circumstances surrounding his "coming out"
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

OscarB63 said:
Don't know, I'd rather have a big guy at the end of the bench who can actually play defense and block shots without racking up fouls..but whatever.
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In other words, you still don't understand what a "role player" is.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

OscarB63 said:
Don't know, I'd rather have a big guy at the end of the bench who can actually play defense and block shots without racking up fouls..but whatever.
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There aren't any guys at the end of the bench who can play the necessarily aggressive defense without picking up fouls.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

OscarB63 said:
no, the arguement is that this isn't as monumental an event as many would have us believe due to the circumstances surrounding his "coming out"
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I just described the "circumstances".

You don't understand that either.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Tucker Case said:
So the only way you'll be happy is if he goes back in time to 2001 and announces he is gay then? Or should he just remain quiet and leave it to the next guy to come out, assuming that the "next guy" has enough to lose for your liking?

You're smart, Ikari. You should be able to see the absurdity of your position.
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I actually don't give a ****. I don't care if a player for my team is gay or not, only that they can win; not Grossman it up. There's nothing here for my liking and Collins is obviously free to do as he likes. It's just that the timing is a bit suspicious and it could (not saying it is) be an attempt to subvert the general lack of interest in his abilities by the league.

In the end, I don't really care one way or the other as basketball is a pathetically stupid and boring sport that should be taken off the air and replaced by hockey. The NBA already has no credibility IMO and does everything it can to swing the results of games for popularity. So what's another publicity stunt in a long line of publicity stunts? But this entire brouhaha over him changing the face of sports is overblown and well overstated at this point since we do not know what, if any, impact it would have. Which has been my point this entire time for anyone who cares to actually read what I write instead of what they've imagined I've written.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Gimmesometruth said:
In other words, you still don't understand what a "role player" is.
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apparently not. who knew a "role player" was just some thug you sent in at the end of a game to foul people :laughat:
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

OscarB63 said:
apparently not. who knew a "role player" was just some thug you sent in at the end of a game to foul people :laughat:
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Uh, some role players are used to stop easy layups, to force a player to make his shots from the foul line, to make other players think twice about driving the lane. That is one type of role player. That is not to say that this is what Collins is.
 
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Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

OscarB63 said:
no, the arguement is that this isn't as monumental an event as many would have us believe due to the circumstances surrounding his "coming out"
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It is monumental, though. Look at all of the support he has received from PLAYERS in different sports. Twitter alone has made it monumental. That's the thing people seem to be removing from the equation. Here we have an active player (who intends to be on a team next year) saying he is gay, and the rest of the sports world's reaction? Support. Former Packer Leroy Butler ended up losing $8,500 dollars for that support because a church cancelled a speaking event with him for saying "Congrats" to Collins on twitter.

It's monumental because it confirms that pro athletes in the big four sports are ready for this. It ceases to be a speculation about whether or not they are ready, and becomes a verifiable fact. It's beneficial for all homosexuals who are worried about how they will be received if they come out, but especially homosexual athletes.

Who gives a **** about his statline? Who cares if he isn't as great as Jackie Robinson? Those things are inconsequential. The human element is what matters. A player (by teammates) who was never an all-star, but has made a lot of friends all over the NBA during his career, comes out and is accepted by the players and his teammates. That's huge.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Ikari said:
I actually don't give a ****. I don't care if a player for my team is gay or not, only that they can win; not Grossman it up. There's nothing here for my liking and Collins is obviously free to do as he likes. It's just that the timing is a bit suspicious and it could (not saying it is) be an attempt to subvert the general lack of interest in his abilities by the league.

In the end, I don't really care one way or the other as basketball is a pathetically stupid and boring sport that should be taken off the air and replaced by hockey. The NBA already has no credibility IMO and does everything it can to swing the results of games for popularity. So what's another publicity stunt in a long line of publicity stunts? But this entire brouhaha over him changing the face of sports is overblown and well overstated at this point since we do not know what, if any, impact it would have. Which has been my point this entire time for anyone who cares to actually read what I write instead of what they've imagined I've written.
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You don't like basketball, you don't care about him being gay, so why are you worrying about his motives?
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Ikari said:
But this entire brouhaha over him changing the face of sports is overblown and well overstated at this point since we do not know what, if any, impact it would have.
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Now there is some logic, since we don't know the impact, everyone should just be quiet.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Tucker Case said:
Why the **** would that matter? Is it only a good thing if he's put at risk? Would it help if some crazy anti-gay psychopath tried to kill him? Would that make it more palatable?
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Motive means a lot. People before didn't know his name and now he is onthe cover of magazines and he is the topic of conversation at the White House.

Please try to stick to rational conversation. You psycho fantasies have no place in this discussion.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Anagram said:
I'll be honest that I'm a bit biased here. Watching Collins help lead my Hawks over the Magic when everyone said they couldn't has been one of the highlights of basketball for me over the last few years. I've actually had an argument over whether he should be in the NBA before he ever came out.
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If you are one of the owners of the team maybe you can fill us all in on why he was let go.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

OscarB63 said:
apparently not. who knew a "role player" was just some thug you sent in at the end of a game to foul people :laughat:
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Why do you think Collins, Johan Petro, Desagana Diop, Nazr Mohammad, Ronny Turiaf, Joel Anthony, Joel Pryzbilla, and Kurt Thomas have all managed to sustain consistent careers in the NBA into their 30s if they have no value.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Mason66 said:
If you are one of the owners of the team maybe you can fill us all in on why he was let go.
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Well by my Hawks I just wanted to indicate the team I rooted for without having to take time to explain it since its not obvious which team I root for based on my location.

And they didn't resign him because they acquired Johan Petro last offseason from the Nets who fills the same role.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Anagram said:
Why do you think Collins, Johan Petro, Desagana Diop, Nazr Mohammad, Ronny Turiaf, Joel Anthony, Joel Pryzbilla, and Kurt Thomas have all managed to sustain consistent careers in the NBA into their 30s if they have no value.
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who said they have no value?
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Mason66 said:
Motive means a lot.
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And what, exactly, is his motive. I do not want baseless speculation, I want facts. Baseless speculation is not rational conversation, it's idiotic gibberish. Seeing as your desire is for rational conversation, tell me his motives and then prove them to be so.

Please try to stick to rational conversation. You psycho fantasies have no place in this discussion.
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In a world where this kind of thing:

god_hates_fags_4712.jpg

Exists, the only fantasy that exists is a delusional belief that someone cannot be killed for being gay.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Anagram said:
And they didn't resign him because they acquired Johan Petro last offseason from the Nets who fills the same role.
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exactly. there are dozens of big, no-name "role players" you can send in off the bench at the end of a game to foul people. Why sign a 34 y/o free agent when guys like him are a dime a dozen? If he was such a valuable "role player" he wouldn't have bounced from team to team to team to team any time someone better became available.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

OscarB63 said:
who said they have no value?
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Well they all have similar roles to Jason Collins. You might not have said no value, but you have said he's a nobody and a terrible player. Yet he and players like him continue to get contracts. There is a role for these people in the NBA.

OscarB63 said:
two weeks ago he was an aging nobody with no contract and a slim chance to get picked up by another team
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he is a terrible player
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Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Tucker Case said:
And what, exactly, is his motive. I do not want baseless speculation, I want facts. Baseless speculation is not rational conversation, it's idiotic gibberish. Seeing as your desire is for rational conversation, tell me his motives and then prove them to be so.



In a world where this kind of thing:

View attachment 67146832

Exists, the only fantasy that exists is a delusional belief that someone cannot be killed for being gay.
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You have just as many facts as I do.

You are free to speculate on why he did as much as I do.

Are you blind to what has happened over the past couple of days? The guy is on a magazine cover and the White House is talking about him. This has become a topic of national conversation and you are free to think it is a huge deal when it is not.

If you find out it was a publicity stunt are you going to come back here and comment on it? Motive is very important.

You cite the existance of these three people as a danger to all gay people.

Are you serious?????
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

OscarB63 said:
exactly. there are dozens of big, no-name "role players" you can send in off the bench at the end of a game to foul people. Why sign a 34 y/o free agent when guys like him are a dime a dozen? If he was such a valuable "role player" he wouldn't have bounced from team to team to team to team any time someone better became available.
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Dozens is overstating it. I think Collins is a cut above the rest of them, as seen by the fact he has continued his career into his mid-thirties.

For the Hawks' situation specifically, Petro isn't really better, but he was necessary to take from the Nets in order to trade away Joe Johnson.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

OscarB63 said:
exactly. there are dozens of big, no-name "role players" you can send in off the bench at the end of a game to foul people. Why sign a 34 y/o free agent when guys like him are a dime a dozen? If he was such a valuable "role player" he wouldn't have bounced from team to team to team to team any time someone better became available.
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And again, no one claimed he is a superstar......but this "circumstance" is significant because....?
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

OscarB63 said:
Don't know, I'd rather have a big guy at the end of the bench who can actually play defense and block shots without racking up fouls..but whatever.
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If you have a big man that can do that he's probably not the last guy on your or anyone elses bench
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Mason66 said:
You have just as many facts as I do.
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Let's discuss them.


You are free to speculate on why he did as much as I do.
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I thought you were interested in rational conversation? Why would you want to engage in irrational speculation if that is your goal?

The guy is on a magazine cover and the White House is talking about him. This has become a topic of national conversation and you are free to think it is a huge deal when it is not.
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See, again you take a steaming **** on rational conversation by saying "when it was not". Not only is that thoroughly irrational, it's contradicted in the very sentence it is contained in.

Let's look at the facts: Things that become a topic of national conversation are, by their very nature, a huge deal. Things which are not a huge deal do NOT become a topic of national conversation.

That's an objective observation. By any rational standard, this is, indeed, a huge deal.

So your response to this is to deny reality and claim it is NOT a huge deal, despite teh overwhelming evidence to the contrary.


And then you have the unabashed audacity to try and lecture other people about rational conversation? That's just plain delusional.

If you find out it was a publicity stunt are you going to come back here and comment on it?
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Publicity stunt? What the **** are you making up now?


You cite the existance of these three people as a danger to all gay people.
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Holy ****, you think Westboro is just three people? And you asked me if I was blind?

But here's a newsflash: only one person who is an anti-gay psychopath needs to exist in order to prove for a fact that there was no "fantasy" involved in my socratic question.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

OscarB63 said:
exactly. there are dozens of big, no-name "role players" you can send in off the bench at the end of a game to foul people. Why sign a 34 y/o free agent when guys like him are a dime a dozen? If he was such a valuable "role player" he wouldn't have bounced from team to team to team to team any time someone better became available.
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You're also simplifying their role too much. It isn't just to foul people. I could foul Dwight Howard at the end of the game, but it isn't going to make him afraid to attack the basket on the next possession. Collins and others play a type of aggressive defense to make them hesitant to go up against them. It's why Collins was so successful at stopping Howard in the playoffs two years ago.
 
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