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Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sports

Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

AGENT J said:
yes you did give me your opinion on that and yet it did soften no matter the reason and yet it still has nothing to do with the thread/fact being discussed
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Actually it was the opinion and analysis of a few political commentators at the Washington post and NPR, backed by factual data. It's how logical arguments are formed
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Hicup said:
Well except that I am providing an actual argument based on available data. I am extrapolating this data in the context of this discussion on the likelihood that a predominantly black sport, will be accepting of a homosexual when the demographics nationally say otherwise. ...And you have provided diddly squat in opposition. :)


By the way do you even KNOW what a strawman is?

Tim-
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yep i believe i supplied you with a definition before when you lost

acceptance?
define acceptance and PLEASE tell me how i talked about it? did i say some where that there will be a majoirty accptance of homosexuality in the NBA? LMAO

there you go again making up another straw man

please stay on topic because your deflections and strawmen are getting more sad with everyone you post.

the facts being discussed is there was an impact. Let me know when you have somethign that proves that wrong. :D
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Dr. Chuckles said:
Actually it was the opinion and analysis of a few political commentators at the Washington post and NPR, backed by factual data. It's how logical arguments are formed
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if you say so, thanks for that too, it still has no impact here
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Dr. Chuckles said:
I'm not sure how it can have zero impact and be a strawman when it's addressing data you cited.
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go back and read and you will understand in that post at the end youll noticed i said that it has no impact, your mistake
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Ikari said:
People in the NBA have said things, anyone can say things. Words are wind. Actions are what matter, and actions can be measured. Without measurement, you cannot claim something to be "factual". I would fully expect the higher ups in the NBA to support Collins and claim it's a bold move. There's no way they would come out against him, that would be a PR nightmare. They'll stay away from it. They won't publish derogatory or denigrating comments either for pretty much the same reason. The NBA has to keep up appearances and image. So I'm not surprised that we have heard in the press what we have heard in the press.

Selected commentary and quotes do not make evidence, however. It's only words, and not even a full statistical analysis of all comments made; just a few selected. We have to wait and see if there is a factual impact demonstrated through action and statistically resolved from background. It's the only way you can claim "factual".
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like i said write them a letter.
maybe they will admit they are lying and just making it up and youll have evidence of your assumptions
i didnt claim facts they just simply are.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

AGENT J said:
yep i believe i supplied you with a definition before when you lost

acceptance?
define acceptance and PLEASE tell me how i talked about it? did i say some where that there will be a majoirty accptance of homosexuality in the NBA? LMAO

there you go again making up another straw man

please stay on topic because your deflections and strawmen are getting more sad with everyone you post.

the facts being discussed is there was an impact. Let me know when you have somethign that proves that wrong. :D
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Well what is the impact? Please tell us what it is? You say so many have come out in support of Collins, which I assume means that they accept his gayness and value his courage, or something to that affect; we all assume this is what you mean by impact, and that it is generally positive? Your attempts to avoid this question with such rigidity and obfuscation is telling. What is this something that has been impacted? You haven't so much as provided anything in the way of substance, in fact your entire premise is devoid of substance rendering it almost completely useless.

Tim-
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

AGENT J said:
like i said write them a letter.
maybe they will admit they are lying and just making it up and youll have evidence of your assumptions
i didnt claim facts they just simply are.
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You claimed facts all the time "factually"...remember that? You used it a lot. There is a factual impact; meaning measured. All I ask for is the true measurement. I don't need to write a letter, as I am not the one making assumption. Merely stating that what you are deriving from words is not the only explanation for the words stated. And since there are multiple possible causes for the statement, from true support to attempting to avoid a PR nightmare, you cannot claim factual information from it without supporting evidence. And that's what you lack here. So every time you say "factual" and "LMAO the owners say X", you are making an assumption. You are claiming knowledge from a system that has not been examined enough to draw actual knowledge from. You assume the owners and players are saying what they are saying based on true acceptance and support of Collins. But it may not be. It could very well be cherry picking of player's comments (i.e. not publishing any dissenting opinion) and coaches and owners playing the PC game. Also a valid explanation. Without further evidence and measurement, you cannot say which one is actually true ("factual").

You may state that in your opinion the owners and coaches are being sincere and that already more players are accepting of homosexuals on the court, and that would be in line with statements from players, coaches, and owners. But you cannot at this point profess knowledge. It is NOT factual at this point until there is more evidence.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

I didn't read the 49 pages but here is my opinion.

I couldn't care less if the guy says he is gay. It doesn't change anything. If there was somebody on this earth, well at least in the US, that thought there were not gay people in profesional sports, then I feel very sorry for that person.

I think it is more than pathetic for the White House press secretary to make a comment on it like it has anything to do at all with national politics or that it is anything relevant.

It is too bad the White House doesn't spend as much time with important issues as they do with crap theat means nothing.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

It was more shocking when Magic Johnson said he had AIDS and that didn't change the landscape of profesional sports.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of

The Man said:
I don't know about a rush of gay pro athletes coming out, but yeah, there has to be at least a handful in each pro sports league. Every job I've ever worked I've had at least one or two gay coworkers, and those places didn't have near as many employees as pro sports leagues do athletes. So just by the law of averages, if you have sports leagues that have at least 600 to 700+ all male athletes in each league, guaranteed there's at least a handful of gay men in each league.

I never heard of Jason Collins before this, but good for him!
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You are exactly right which is why this is a no news event.

Maybe this was the reason he all of sudden came out. It is easier to get endorsement deals when people know your name.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

tererun said:
No, christian side hugs don't spread cooties. jesus did them so they are OK, and are a great way to keep cootie free with your gay friends or other people who you may be trying to deny your sexual attraction to.
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I know this is a different subject, but how could you posible know how Jesús hugged somebody?

There were no poloroid cameras around back then.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Mason66 said:
It was more shocking when Magic Johnson said he had AIDS and that didn't change the landscape of profesional sports.
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Well he didn't ask for drapes on the locker room windows either. Just wait.
 
Re: Jason Colly, altering the landscape of sports

TurtleDude said:
opinion noted and not shared. I consider such people to be those who had " hall of fame" or a Pro bowl or All star career. productive means what it says
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Are all NASCAR drivers productive even if they never won a race? Afterall very few people actually get to be NASCAR drivers.

This logic can be applied to anything where very few people get to do it but it in no way reflect on that persons productivity in that position.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

AGENT J said:
i agree there always will be just like some people still are racist and are still misogynist.
in general i think the majority are comfortable with it at a level like this.

overall things have DEFINITELY changed for the better since i was a kid on this issue too.

As much as media/internet/technology has taken part in arguably bad things it is responsible for education. There may be tons of misinformation in the world but there is also a ton of facts out there two and now its easier to learn the truth and the people that are in the middle are learning more and more everyday and the people that dont want to learn simply wont.

It be awesome if he finds a homes and a team needs his current skill set and many more pro-athletes follow.
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Can I still hater redheads or is that not allowed anymore?
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

DiAnna said:
That's what gets to me. In this day and age, it shouldn't take courage to live openly as the person one actually is. However, as some of the hateful and contemptuous posts in this very thread prove, it does take courage. A great deal of courage.

Some posters in here should be ashamed of their bigotry. If they used the word "queer" in a post, everyone else should be ashamed for them.
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It doesn't take courage if there are no consequences to his announcement.

If he had come out when he was on a team where there could have been some kind of consequence, that would have been slightly more courageous, but not at this point in his carree. It just seems like he wants people to know his name.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Mason66 said:
It doesn't take courage if there are no consequences to his announcement.

If he had come out when he was on a team where there could have been some kind of consequence, that would have been slightly more courageous, but not at this point in his carree. It just seems like he wants people to know his name.
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bingo:

two weeks ago he was an aging nobody with no contract and a slim chance to get picked up by another team

now he's a media darling and the champion of gay rights who changed the landscape of sport

he had nothing to lose and everything to gain by coming out when he did.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

OscarB63 said:
bingo:

two weeks ago he was an aging nobody with no contract and a slim chance to get picked up by another team

now he's a media darling and the champion of gay rights who changed the landscape of sport

he had nothing to lose and everything to gain by coming out when he did.
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Generally the best get on magazine covers and are commented on by the White House.

If he had any kind of integrity at all, he would be ashamed by the attention so something about himself that is so insignificant to the world.

The White House commented on it for God sake.
 
Re: Jason Colly, altering the landscape of sports

Mason66 said:
Are all NASCAR drivers productive even if they never won a race? Afterall very few people actually get to be NASCAR drivers.

This logic can be applied to anything where very few people get to do it but it in no way reflect on that persons productivity in that position.
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If that NASCAR driver helps a team mate rack up a bunch of wins? Yes.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

OscarB63 said:
two weeks ago he was an aging nobody with no contract and a slim chance to get picked up by another team
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He would've been picked up. Good defensive center, great teammate, one of the best at defending Dwight Howard that I've ever seen. Probably the only reason that the Hawks could beat the Magic in the playoffs two years ago.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Anagram said:
He would've been picked up.
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maybe...more likely not. 34 y/o playing for one of the worst teams in the league and only averaged 9.5 minutes per game for the last two years. 1.1 ppg


Good defensive center,
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if by good defense you mean "prone to commit fouls", then I agree

great teammate,
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you don't get a contract based on being a good teammate (just ask Tim Tebow ;) )

one of the best at defending Dwight Howard that I've ever seen. Probably the only reason that the Hawks could beat the Magic in the playoffs two years ago.
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sadly...today is not two years ago. In his last 3 games with the Wizards he played a grand total of 21 minutes (17 coming in one game). hit ZERO FGs and made 2 free throws and committed 3 fouls.
 
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Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Anagram said:
He would've been picked up.
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Far from definite. If he was that valuable for that reason he would've been on the roster of some western conference playoff contender rather than a bottom dwelling eastern conference laughing stock like the BulletsWizards.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

OscarB63 said:
maybe...more likely not. 34 y/o playing for one of the worst teams in the league and only averaged 9.5 minutes per game for the last two years. 1.1 ppg
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He's averaged about 15 minutes or less a game since 2007, yet he always has work.




if by good defense you mean "prone to commit fouls", then I agree
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Which is what he's supposed to do. An aggressive defensive center to intimidate the opposing center. Playing 40 minutes a night is not his goal.

you don't get a contract based on being a good teammate
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That's just not true. Clubs do that all the time with the end of the benchers.

sadly...today is not two years ago.
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His skills have not diminished much since than.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Tucker Case said:
So then you of all people should be able to provide a good reason besides homophobia for choosing to criticize his career in this context.
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Because the timing is suspect. He came out at a time when he had nothing to lose and everything to gain. If he had something at risk, this story might have been news worthy but certainly not at the level it has been.

Is he exempt for how he treated other people because he now sleeps openly with other men?

Why are you so bent on defending this guy and his carreer?
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

OscarB63 said:
you don't get a contract based on being a good teammate (just ask Tim Tebow ;) )
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Tebow doesn't strike me as a good teammate, actually. He'd help teams more if he switched positions, but he refuses to move away from a position he is not suited for. I'd also bet that Kyle Orton was not a fan of him as a teammate.
 
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