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Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sports

Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Oh please. I haven't been the gay forum here in months. Why bother, it's full of people like you. And PULLEASE, Tucky. The gay is everywhere you turn these days. In the paper, on the net, in the news, my gawd how does one avoid it?

Easily. Don't click on threads with titles like "NBA center announces he is gay", for a start. If you have no interest in homosexuality, and no interest in basketball, that should be absurdly easy. Yet you couldn't do it.

Your insinuation that I must be projecting = fail! :)

Actually, that wasn't my insinuation. that was your insecurity about my insinuation that lead you t that erroneous conclusion. My insinuation was that you hate homosexuals and go out of your way to express your hatred of them. But if you think that you hate them because you secretly want ****, who am I to judge.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Because you're claiming calling someone a scumbag, for misleading someone in an intimate relationship for 7 years, is homophobic.

No, I'm claiming that HICUP calling Collins a scumbag in this thread is caused by hicups homophobia. That's very different from what you are saying above.

Stop making up lies and pretending they are true.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

BS! He already knew who he was. Probably for a very long time. Coming out isn't about being honest with yourself, it's about being honest with the one's around you.

Tim-

I have a friend who is gay. Before that, he was married to a woman. He didn't know he was gay for years before. Heck, he might not even have been gay, I don't know jack about orientation. But at some point he realized who he was.

You're assuming that Collins knew for a long time. Unless you're him, you don't know.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

That reminds me of the poor soul that stayed with his wife for thirty years and out of the blue decided he was gay.

Yeah, he decided he was gay. :roll:
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Actually, I said homophobia leads to criticism of his career in this context.

The context is partially "what does it mean for his career". SO that doesn't make any sense

I also asked what other reason besides homophobia exists to criticize his career in this context, because I really cannot think of a single non-homophobic reason to criticize his career in a discussion about his homosexuality.

well, it would help if you took the time to note the fact a big part of the context is the discussion of "how it will impact his career...


But if you hate a sport you aren't attracted to a thread about that sport in order to discuss the careers of players in that sport. Don't invent excuses for the

Dude, the mere fact that I knew about baseball, despite not liking it, informed opinions on players and the sport. And I certainly would respond to people talking about some suck-ass having a great career when he didn't



But if you hate a sport you aren't attracted to a thread about that sport in order to discuss the careers of players in that sport. Don't invent excuses for the behavior.[/QUOTE]
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

I have a friend who is gay. Before that, he was married to a woman. He didn't know he was gay for years before. Heck, he might not even have been gay, I don't know jack about orientation. But at some point he realized who he was.

You're assuming that Collins knew for a long time. Unless you're him, you don't know.

I'm assuming based off what the gays are themselves saying when asked. In case you've missed it, they generally and almost exclusively say that they knew they were always gay, ever since they can remember. Sure some of them, a lot of them hide it, but you can't hide what you don't know. Your friend seems like an exception NOT the rule. Seems more like he was just tired of women, more than he was gay. :)

Tim-
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Yeah, he decided he was gay. :roll:

Exactly. It's either that they found out they were gay, as if they weren't aware of it already, or that they decided on it as if that is possible. Both of them are bull**** excuses made by scumbags. Am I supposed to feel sorry for people that lead on women for years on end?
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Yeah, he decided he was gay. :roll:

Well, if he didn't then he's was a lying sack of **** in his personal relationships. That's up to him of course, until the hero label starts getting thrown around.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Unless he's retired or clearly not going to play again, he's active. With the Wizards, he wouldn't be "active" come playoff time anyway.

he is no longer under contract with the Wizards. and was not at the time of his announcement. how can you be "active" if you are not a member of a team?


in a nutshell:

The reason I don't see this action as "brave" or worthy of worship is because he had nothing to lose by coming out.

1. He is not under contract and therefore had no fear of being "fired" for coming out.

2. Not being a "star" player, it's not like he stood to lose $$$$$ in endorsement contracts (anyone here know of anything he was the spokesman for?)

3. He is 34 years old and has been in the league for 12 years. (average career for an NBA player is 8 seasons) So "out" or not, his career is/was likely at it's end

4. He was never a standout player or a "must have" guy (otherwise he wouldn't have been bounced around to 7 different teams in 12 years).

5. In the event no team offers him a contract, he can now claim that it is because he came out as gay.


so, "IN THIS CONTEXT" there is nothing "homophobic" about my criticizing his career. (unless, of course, you frame the context so that any criticism is homophobia)
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Well, if he didn't then he's was a lying sack of **** in his personal relationships. That's up to him of course, until the hero label starts getting thrown around.

Which was my point as well.


Tim-
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

The context is partially "what does it mean for his career".

The third post was the first mention of it's effect on his career, which in turn inspired hating on his career. Look at who was involved, then take note of their history.

SO that doesn't make any sense

It only makes sense while in possession of knowledge.



well, it would help if you took the time to note the fact a big part of the context is the discussion of "how it will impact his career...

When did it become part of the context?



Dude, the mere fact that I knew about baseball, despite not liking it, informed opinions on players and the sport. And I certainly would respond to people talking about some suck-ass having a great career when he didn't

Why would you go into a thread about baseball, though? That's the part you are ignoring. If you found yourself amidst a discussion, that;'s one thing, but would you seek out such a discussion, even initiate it?
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

I'm assuming based off what the gays are themselves saying when asked. In case you've missed it, they generally and almost exclusively say that they knew they were always gay, ever since they can remember. Sure some of them, a lot of them hide it, but you can't hide what you don't know. Your friend seems like an exception NOT the rule. Seems more like he was just tired of women, more than he was gay. :)

Tim-

A lot of them don't realize, or aren't being honest with themselves about who they are. What people say in retrospect is one thing, but nobody lives their life in retrospect.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Well, if he didn't then he's was a lying sack of **** in his personal relationships. That's up to him of course, until the hero label starts getting thrown around.

Name one person who isn't a "lying sack of **** in their personal relationships"?
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

A lot of them don't realize, or aren't being honest with themselves about who they are. What people say in retrospect is one thing, but nobody lives their life in retrospect.

I again call BS, Rocket. I would imagine that you start suspecting the minute you like the look of a penis or vagina. For MOST people that happens around age 10. LOL Are you seriously arguing that people don't know their sexuality for decades?


Tim-
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Exactly. It's either that they found out they were gay, as if they weren't aware of it already, or that they decided on it as if that is possible. Both of them are bull**** excuses made by scumbags.

They struggled with their sexuality for years and finally acknowledged it to themselves is more likely. They tried to live up to societal expectations is more likely.

Am I supposed to feel sorry for people that lead on women for years on end?

You aren't supposed to do anything. You don't have to be empathetic if you don't want to be. You're free to be as judgmental or hypocritical as you want to be. Nobody is stopping you. It's not about you.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Name one person who isn't a "lying sack of **** in their personal relationships"?

Ah the old moral equivalency routine. :)

Only works on the feeble of minds Tucky, shame on you for throwing it out there. I know you have a better argument than that? :)


Tim-
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

I again call BS, Rocket. I would imagine that you start suspecting the minute you like the look of a penis or vagina. For MOST people that happens around age 10. LOL Are you seriously arguing that people don't know their sexuality for decades?


Tim-

Many people struggle with it for decades. They struggle with it because of societal pressures. If we lived in an accepting society, they wouldn't have to struggle, at least not as much.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

They struggled with their sexuality for years and finally acknowledged it to themselves is more likely. They tried to live up to societal expectations is more likely.

Yeah, and all the while they didn't pay any mind to the people they were pulling along for the ride. Scumbag.

You aren't supposed to do anything. You don't have to be empathetic if you don't want to be. You're free to be as judgmental or hypocritical as you want to be. Nobody is stopping you. It's not about you.

I was going to act in the way I wanted anyway.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

he is no longer under contract with the Wizards. and was not at the time of his announcement. how can you be "active" if you are not a member of a team?


in a nutshell:

The reason I don't see this action as "brave" or worthy of worship is because he had nothing to lose by coming out.

1. He is not under contract and therefore had no fear of being "fired" for coming out.

2. Not being a "star" player, it's not like he stood to lose $$$$$ in endorsement contracts (anyone here know of anything he was the spokesman for?)

3. He is 34 years old and has been in the league for 12 years. (average career for an NBA player is 8 seasons) So "out" or not, his career is/was likely at it's end

4. He was never a standout player or a "must have" guy (otherwise he wouldn't have been bounced around to 7 different teams in 12 years).

5. In the event no team offers him a contract, he can now claim that it is because he came out as gay.


so, "IN THIS CONTEXT" there is nothing "homophobic" about my criticizing his career. (unless, of course, you frame the context so that any criticism is homophobia)

So do you usually run around here slagging journeyman pros? I didn't say anything about homophobic, just pointing out that he is an active player. I guess that's what I REALLY meant though, right? Because apparently everybody else knows what I REALLY mean.

He's an active player. He's not retired, he still wants to play and I'd think that a team that needs a halfway decent, reasonably priced backup would probably call him at some point. Or he'll go play in Europe for a year or two before he decides it's not worth it. If he wasn't any good as a backup, he wouldn't have played for 12 years. If he sucked that much, he'd have been out of the league long ago. (Christ, I just used "sucked that much" and "out" in the same sentence. Cue Beavis and Butt-head.)
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Name one person who isn't a "lying sack of **** in their personal relationships"?

Wow, my Mother, my Father, a number of my Aunts and Uncles (not all of course), about half the married couples I know and about the same percentage of unmarried couples. This is so internet psych. Like the porn thing, just because you and I do it doesn't mean everyone looks at porn. In fact a lot of people I know that don't live on the internet or in social media don't look at porn (other than the soft porn that is television programming and commercials these days).
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Ah the old moral equivalency routine. :)

I notice that while you were dodging the question you failed to list anyone. ;)

Only works on the feeble of minds Tucky, shame on you for throwing it out there.

Silly Timmy, pretending that an argument doesn't work doesn't affect it in any way. My point is that the people who are calling him a lying scumbag are doing so because their homophobic views make that person's "crime" worse than other people's "crimes".
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Many people struggle with it for decades. They struggle with it because of societal pressures. If we lived in an accepting society, they wouldn't have to struggle, at least not as much.


Define struggle? Even if they struggle with it, the {IT} that they're gay isn't a question they struggle with. The struggle is about who should know, and who shouldn't.


Tim-
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

I again call BS, Rocket. I would imagine that you start suspecting the minute you like the look of a penis or vagina. For MOST people that happens around age 10. LOL Are you seriously arguing that people don't know their sexuality for decades?


Tim-

Yeah, I thing a lot of people don't really know who they for decades. Some people suddenly become lawyers when they're 45. Or quit lawyering when they're 50 because they realized that they never really did like it that much. I still don't know who I am, and I suspect that who I am is still changing and likely will be for the rest of my life.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

You responded to criticism of his career by calling the people making those criticisms homophobic. I'm pointing out your accusation rings rather hollow if you can't actually defend his career against such criticism.

You should be shocked you haven't been called a racist yet for your criticism. ;)
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Wow, my Mother, my Father, a number of my Aunts and Uncles (not all of course), about half the married couples I know and about the same percentage of unmarried couples.

How do you know? I'd be willing to bet HUGE money that each and every one of those relationships involves some degree of lying between the participants. Almost nobody is totally honest. They are attracted to other people while they are in the relationship. They miht not act on it, but they certainly do not divulge the information. They hold back their desires or they lie to their partner about certain things, like their enjoyment of sex for example, or what they imagine while they have sex as another.

Don't kid yourself. Most relationships are built on lies.
 
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