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Thread: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sports

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    Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    as I pointed out, people simply talking about something doesn't lend it significance.

    Might this be a significant event? Sure, but talking about it doesn't actually establish it as so.
    Who would decide if this is or is not "significant"?
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    Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    You don't like basketball, you don't care about him being gay, so why are you worrying about his motives?
    I'm not really. It's just that I doubt that some mediocre player from a dying sport is going to have any lasting impact on sports. People are jumping up and down claiming some huge impact already, but when you ask them about it they can't actually quantify the impact.

    Also, it's 2013, it's time to stop being shocked that there are gay people in the world.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    all of which makes him useful in only a very limited capacity. which is why, IMESHO, the chances of him being picked up next season were slim.
    A limited capacity that almost EVERY team employees. Statements suggesting he was definitely getting signed are as ridiculous as those suggesting it's a near certainty he wouldn't be signed. You could haggle a bit on which was the more LIKELY scenario, but in reality they're both relatively likely.

    Most teams have a tall veteran bench guy that fouls and plays D. Go look up the name Joe Klein and see where he played in 1997 with 12 years in the league. Or where Robert Parish played in 96 with 20 years in the league. Or where James Edwards played in 95 with 18 years in the league. Note their stats as well when you do it.

    Many never heard of two of those players, and probably didn't know the one they did recognize played that long in perhaps unless they were a fan of the team....but teams have a need for that mold of player, so their "limited capacity" doesn't matter, it fills a need.

    Now that said...Jason Collins isn't the only person that fills that need and as he ages there's more and more likelihood that he's not the one tapped to fill it for one of the teams. But the chances that he ARE tapped aren't "slim". They're not great either, but they're not slim.

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    Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    they are only relevent in the context that, his coming out is not as big of a "landscape altering" event as it would have been had it been a more well known, or younger, or better player who had done so.
    I asked this earlier, was Rosa Parks a "significant" person before she refused to sit in the back of the bus? This is not about his previous stats, this is about how his action changes how society (and in this case the US sporting viewer and players) accepts homosexuality.

    Clearly, the reaction shows how gays are accepted among members of this group.
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    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
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    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I'm not really. It's just that I doubt that some mediocre player from a dying sport is going to have any lasting impact on sports. People are jumping up and down claiming some huge impact already, but when you ask them about it they can't actually quantify the impact.
    If you made me put money on it, I'd say the biggest likely impact from this is that the story helps to start plucking the strands that eventually leads to a better known player in or near their prime coming out and being the standard bearer for the notion/movement who goes on to be viewed as the "watershed" player.

    And there's nothing wrong with that and if anything that's a credit to Collins if he does inspire such a thing. But I see that as a much larger probability than himself being that "watershed" moment player.

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    Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    And it seems like you're moving the goal posts. You first define things as "huge deals" if they are a "topic of national conversation". Then when someone rightly points out that there are a large number of things that become the "topic of national conversation" that one could make a case are absolutely not "huge deals" you back track.
    False. I have been very consistent in pointing out that things which are not huge deals do not become "topics of national conversation". The issue here is that there seems to be a significant confusion on what is or is not a topic of national conversation. I believe that a topic of national conversation is very different than something which is known of or mentioned in passing nationwide.

    The really important words there are "topic", "national", and "conversation". Something which is mentioned in passing for a laugh, such as Kim K's vagshot, doesn't inspire a national conversation not is it a national conversation, even if it is occurring all over the nation.

    The only things which can inspire a true national conversation are things which have some degree of import in real life.

    So, no, the goal posts were not moved. I merely decided to not cherry pick the words and make them mean something which they do not.

    So, if you want to discuss what constitutes a national conversation, go right ahead, but don't make up some bull**** about me moving the goal posts when I did nothing of the sort.
    Last edited by Tucker Case; 05-01-13 at 05:59 PM.
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    Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    I asked this earlier, was Rosa Parks a "significant" person before she refused to sit in the back of the bus? This is not about his previous stats, this is about how his action changes how society (and in this case the US sporting viewer and players) accepts homosexuality.

    Clearly, the reaction shows how gays are accepted among members of this group.
    You're not equating Collins to Rosa Parks, are you?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    A limited capacity that almost EVERY team employees. Statements suggesting he was definitely getting signed are as ridiculous as those suggesting it's a near certainty he wouldn't be signed. You could haggle a bit on which was the more LIKELY scenario, but in reality they're both relatively likely.

    Most teams have a tall veteran bench guy that fouls and plays D. Go look up the name Joe Klein and see where he played in 1997 with 12 years in the league. Or where Robert Parish played in 96 with 20 years in the league. Or where James Edwards played in 95 with 18 years in the league. Note their stats as well when you do it.

    Many never heard of two of those players, and probably didn't know the one they did recognize played that long in perhaps unless they were a fan of the team....but teams have a need for that mold of player, so their "limited capacity" doesn't matter, it fills a need.

    Now that said...Jason Collins isn't the only person that fills that need and as he ages there's more and more likelihood that he's not the one tapped to fill it for one of the teams. But the chances that he ARE tapped aren't "slim". They're not great either, but they're not slim.
    I guess it all depends on what your definition of "slim" is. As an eternal pessimist, anything below about 65% is slim
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    Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    You're not equating Collins to Rosa Parks, are you?
    yep........
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

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    Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    right, individuals might talk about kim K's vag
    And boom goes the dynamite. Its individuals, not a national conversation. Thank you for admitting that you were wrong. I like to pay attention to the words that are present. Why do you ignore them?

    And Zyph, What Dr C did was move the goal posts. See how he moved form "topic of national conversation" to "individuals" without acknowledging the key difference between those things?
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

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