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Thread: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sports

  1. #401
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    Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    LMAO, numbers? Testimonials are all fine and good, less you are claiming and effect above baseline; then you need to demonstrate the effect above baseline

    As I have already said, I understand the testimonials and would full expect them in a system which has both champions and dissenters.



    The guy's the first, yes? So obviously that was a retarded question. Numbers? You make claims, can you demonstrate the claims?



    LMAO, already handled. LMAO. Testimonials do not statistics make. Please make with the numbers. Of course in a system where there were ALREADY supporters, the supporters would come out and support. Sorta what they do. Doesn't mean that they had CHANGED THEIR MINDS BECAUSE OF THIS MAN'S ACTIONS. That's the contention, and what you cannot, will not show. Now if you had numbers that had measurement of acceptance before and after the announcement....maybe then we could proceed. Got those numbers? LMAO.



    ....It's like reason and logic are toxic to you. I didn't say you did, don't make crap up. But you posted ex-players saying how it was such a big deal for him to come forward and in their day they couldn't. Well of course in their day (assuming they aren't from the future) it was harder. Duh! Now it's easier, in the future it will be even still easier. You seem to be missing the real point here in order to make your lame attacks and stupid arguments which continually prove nothing. Don't claim that attacks against your arguments are attacks against you. Jesus.

    Fact remains impact exists nothing changed



    They could be, perhaps just to avoid a media spectacular. I don't know them well enough to really comment. But again, personal testimonial is not statistics. Produce the numbers, otherwise assuming broad changes in dynamic off of selected published testimonial is.....assumption.



    Which is calling me a liar. Is this how far down the rabbit hole you're going. Also, nothing I have written thus far has been a lie.



    No, you've taken a few published testimonials and holding onto them like gospel. What you haven't done is provided ANY numbers, stats, analysis to back your point. I'm not saying their wrong, I'm sure it was a brave thing, I'm sure back in the day it was harder. What I am not sure about, and skeptical about, is the overall influence and impact this is going to have on sports and on society in general.



    No lie, no back peddling. LMAO. If the impact is factual, you have the numbers to show it. If not, then you don't. So the ball is in your court. Factual impact, yes? You keep saying it over and over again. So PROVE IT.



    Has it? How many more gay people have come out since his announcement? What percentage turnaround in opinion has occurred? Factual, yes? Factual is measurable. Where's the measurement? That's all I'm asking for, been asking for nothing more this entire time. Factual means real, real has impact that can be measured. Show me the measurement.



    Have the rules changed? Has admittance changed? Have more people come out and declared themselves gay? Has there been an appreciable increase in acceptance?
    a nice long post and nothing has changed
    you have factually lied
    you have factually made stuff up that i never said and you have stated strawmen
    your original question has been answered and proven and that fact iiiiiiiiiiiiiiis

    wait for it
    wait for it

    the league has been impacted, feel free to disagree with this fact but facts dont care about your opinion LOL

    please let me know when this changes

    Maybe after your emotions settle down and you stop punching your keyboard write some very stern letters to all the current and ex players, coaches, owners and the league president that disagree with you and tell them they are wrong and lying, IKARI SAID SO!!!! im sure you will have an "impact"

    your deflections failed
    your lies failed
    your made up arguments failed
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    Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    a nice long post and nothing has changed
    you have factually lied
    you have factually made stuff up that i never said and you have stated strawmen
    your original question has been answered and proven and that fact iiiiiiiiiiiiiiis

    wait for it
    wait for it

    the league has been impacted, feel free to disagree with this fact but facts dont care about your opinion LOL

    please let me know when this changes

    Maybe after your emotions settle down and you stop punching your keyboard write some very stern letters to all the current and ex players, coaches, owners and the league president that disagree with you and tell them they are wrong and lying, IKARI SAID SO!!!! im sure you will have an "impact"

    your deflections failed
    your lies failed
    your made up arguments failed
    So anything to back any of this up, or are you just making statements again?

    I factually lied, then you have proof of the lie. Feel free to present it
    League has factually changed, then you have proof of the change. Feel free to present it
    My original question was answered and proven fact, then you have proof of such. Feel free to present it.

    LMAO

    LMAO

    LMAO

    Of course you won't, because you have no defense, you have no measurement, you have nothing to prove your assertions; so all you are left with is this aggressive and intellectually dishonest attack that is nothing but truly pathetic. Produce numbers, or GTFO. I don't care how badly you want it to be true, if you cannot produce the data and evidence then you cannot demonstrate that it is true.
    Last edited by Ikari; 05-01-13 at 12:57 AM.
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    Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

    I personally think that sexuality is one of the stupidest wedge issues in our political system.

    Historically, the politics of sexuality experiences these wild swings between puritanical oppression, and hedonistic decadence. The dark ages were a disaster of morality run amok, and the hedonism of the Roman Empire before that time was symptomatic of the larger factors that led to their decline.

    Objectively speaking, casual sexuality carries numerous drawbacks, including higher risk of spreading STD's, and forming unhealthy emotional attachments based on the pleasure of sex, rather than the long term benefits of mutual compatibility. Homosexual intercourse carries a higher risk of spreading STD's, while casual heterosexual relationships carry the additional risk of unplanned pregnancy, and the additional sticky moral implications of abortion (regardless of your stance on the issue). These drawbacks validate the concerns of fundamentalists. Whether your stance is based on religion or morality, the stance, at least in principle, is a valid one.

    At the same time, the insane overreaction to deviant sexuality on the part of fundamentalists creates as much of a problem as (and arguable more than) the sexuality ever created in the first place. Instead of simply seeing the obvious pitfalls of casual sexuality and assigning appropriately strong opposition on the merits of abstinence and monogamy, fundamentalists treat homosexuality like it's the only sin in The Bible, and go so overboard in their reaction to it, that it (justifiably) creates sympathy for the people being oppressed. This leads to a counterculture that rejects the responsible approach to sexuality that fundamentalists (rightly) advocate for, and causes more harm to their own cause than good.

    The bottom line is that responsible sexuality is admirable. People who refrain from risky sexual practices are doing a good thing for society, and people who engage in dangerous lifestyles are causing harm to themselves and society in the long term. Individually, we should be conscious of the consequences of our actions and act with foresight and responsibility, both in how we conduct our own actions, and in the way we advocate for what we believe is right.

    As for Jason Collins, anyone and everyone should have the right to disagree with his lifestyle. At the same time, nobody should have the right to persecute him unlawfully, and anyone that would have a low opinion of him based solely on his sexuality, is probably a hypocrite, and fully deserves the backlash they receive as a result.

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    Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    So anything to back any of this up, or are you just making statements again?

    I factually lied, then you have proof of the lie. Feel free to present it
    League has factually changed, then you have proof of the change. Feel free to present it
    My original question was answered and proven fact, then you have proof of such. Feel free to present it.

    LMAO

    LMAO

    LMAO

    Of course you won't, because you have no defense, you have no measurement, you have nothing to prove your assertions; so all you are left with is this aggressive and intellectually dishonest attack that is nothing but truly pathetic. Produce numbers, or GTFO. I don't care how badly you want it to be true, if you cannot produce the data and evidence then you cannot demonstrate that it is true.
    numbers arent needed LMAO this strawman is never going to work, you assume people are dumb and fall for you bs and deflections but they dont LOL

    I already backed it up many current and ex players, coaches, owners and the president of the league agree with the facts, who do you have again that agrees with you? nobody that matters
    the league says its true, ikari says its not

    as for proof of your lies?

    i answered how the league has changed, gave you 4 answers
    then you said in an emotional, blind, bias, dishonest, rant
    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    You have never addressed it, Can you at least give an actual response?
    .
    thats a lie because i addressed it and i responded to it with FOUR answers that i simply reposted, then you responded to the 4 answers, even though you claimed i never answered.

    you factual lie. LMAO BOOM! you lose again

    did you start writing that letter yet, im sure the all the people int the league will admit to you that they are wrong and they are lying
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  5. #405
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    Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    numbers arent needed LMAO this strawman is never going to work, you assume people are dumb and fall for you bs and deflections but they dont LOL

    I already backed it up many current and ex players, coaches, owners and the president of the league agree with the facts, who do you have again that agrees with you? nobody that matters
    the league says its true, ikari says its not

    as for proof of your lies?

    i answered how the league has changed, gave you 4 answers
    then you said in an emotional, blind, bias, dishonest, rant


    thats a lie because i addressed it and i responded to it with FOUR answers that i simply reposted, then you responded to the 4 answers, even though you claimed i never answered.

    you factual lie. LMAO BOOM! you lose again

    did you start writing that letter yet, im sure the all the people int the league will admit to you that they are wrong and they are lying
    This is nothing more than hypersensitive BS and ignorant attack.

    As I said, I'm sure that those in support would come out publically to support. But it's not like it's a scientific study of ideas and accetance level. It's publicized announcement. It's fine; but you're not proving your point by saying some dudes in the NBA say it's great and it's brave and it's breaking ground. You would naturally expect any strong supporter of an idea or individual to come up and praise said idea or individual. But it's not showing that the NBA is not accepting of gays when before this announcement they were not. There's just nothing there to support that claim. Numbers aren't a deflect, numbers are the proof of system dynamic. And if you can't prove it, then you have nothing but ignorant argument built upon supposition and assumption, perchance even delusional.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    numbers arent needed LMAO this strawman is never going to work, you assume people are dumb and fall for you bs and deflections but they dont LOL

    I already backed it up many current and ex players, coaches, owners and the president of the league agree with the facts, who do you have again that agrees with you? nobody that matters
    the league says its true, ikari says its not

    as for proof of your lies?

    i answered how the league has changed, gave you 4 answers
    then you said in an emotional, blind, bias, dishonest, rant


    thats a lie because i addressed it and i responded to it with FOUR answers that i simply reposted, then you responded to the 4 answers, even though you claimed i never answered.

    you factual lie. LMAO BOOM! you lose again

    did you start writing that letter yet, im sure the all the people int the league will admit to you that they are wrong and they are lying
    Neither of you are going to win your argument, because you're having a subjective debate about two entirely different aspects of the NBA, and basketball as a sport.

    In terms of the sport of basketball, Collins' revelation doesn't change the rules of the game, doesn't change the skill level of any player, and has no bearing whatsoever on how the game is played, or will be played in the future.

    At the same time, Magic Johnson didn't change the game when it was revealed that he had HIV either, in that sense. At the same time, it was a significant event in the sport, and raised awareness about HIV significantly.

    I would argue more that the sport affected society as a result of the revelation, than the revelation changed the sport. Arguing that basketball its self was changed doesn't bear much merit objectively speaking, but arguing that nothing changed at all isn't really rational either.

  7. #407
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    Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    This is nothing more than hypersensitive BS and ignorant attack.

    As I said, I'm sure that those in support would come out publically to support. But it's not like it's a scientific study of ideas and accetance level. It's publicized announcement. It's fine; but you're not proving your point by saying some dudes in the NBA say it's great and it's brave and it's breaking ground. You would naturally expect any strong supporter of an idea or individual to come up and praise said idea or individual. But it's not showing that the NBA is not accepting of gays when before this announcement they were not. There's just nothing there to support that claim. Numbers aren't a deflect, numbers are the proof of system dynamic. And if you can't prove it, then you have nothing but ignorant argument built upon supposition and assumption, perchance even delusional.
    This is clearly at the predictions stage, but you don't need to **** on the moment either. How could there possibly be such evidence a day later? All we have now are tweets and jersey sales. Now if he had done this mid-season it would have been a bigger deal and we'd have more answers by now, but that's just how it goes. If the NBA was not more homophobic 5 10 15 years ago, then someone would have come out back then, or do you have another explanation? The fact he did this (possibly) before his career ended DOES speak towards how attitudes have greatly changed.

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    Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Those things were all true yesterday and the day before and the day before that and the day before that. Should they make the news every day? Yep. We're still in Afghanistan. Ok.
    This is awfully vague. Are you saying that you agree with me or that you do not?

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    Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    you didnt really expect something different did you? just saying news hasnt been about news for quite some time now unfortunately
    Yes, I do expect to see NEWS when I watch the news. I expect that the top stories would be the MOST important stories that affect ALL of us.

  10. #410
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    Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    What's especially annoying to me is that we have a "war" going on in Afghanistan, we have problems with NK, Iran, etc., children are abducted, missing, abused, killed, yet THIS is one of the top stories on the news? Really?
    ^
    THIS.


    Cheers,
    Fallen.

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