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Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sports

Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Asante Samuel posed a good question. Why should athletes announce their sexuality? Should ESPN and SI do a spread every time a straight guy announces he likes girls? or are we gonna discriminate there?

I think there's a fair argument for ESPN writing about the story. They do tons of articles about athlete's personal lives that differentiate themselves from the average athlete. Like a huge series on R. A. Dickey climbing Mount Kilimanjaro last year. Jason Collins' personal life is different than the vast majority of athletes, so it makes sense for them to write about it.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Asante Samuel posed a good question. Why should athletes announce their sexuality? Should ESPN and SI do a spread every time a straight guy announces he likes girls? or are we gonna discriminate there?

I was not aware that there was a culture in professional sports that was caustic towards heterosexuals. Wow, so a heterosexual athlete divulging their sexuality could lead to the end of their career or stigmatization in the sport they spent their whole life mastering? Your statement was just so edifying about the commensurate situations between heterosexuals and homosexuals in professional sports that I am truly grateful.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

False. I have been very consistent in pointing out that things which are not huge deals do not become "topics of national conversation". The issue here is that there seems to be a significant confusion on what is or is not a topic of national conversation. I believe that a topic of national conversation is very different than something which is known of or mentioned in passing nationwide.

The really important words there are "topic", "national", and "conversation". Something which is mentioned in passing for a laugh, such as Kim K's vagshot, doesn't inspire a national conversation not is it a national conversation, even if it is occurring all over the nation.

The only things which can inspire a true national conversation are things which have some degree of import in real life.

So, no, the goal posts were not moved. I merely decided to not cherry pick the words and make them mean something which they do not.

So, if you want to discuss what constitutes a national conversation, go right ahead, but don't make up some bull**** about me moving the goal posts when I did nothing of the sort.

The person that decided to put him on the cover of the magazine made it a topic of national conversation.

The White House Spokesman commenting on it made it a topic of national conversation.

His coming out in and of itself did not, it is the medias and the governments reaction to it that did.

it is an invented event, if you can call it an event, and people are talking about it simply because it has been thrust in our faces from unlikely places.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

I was not aware that there was a culture in professional sports that was caustic towards heterosexuals

You mean the WNBA?
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

The person that decided to put him on the cover of the magazine made it a topic of national conversation.

The White House Spokesman commenting on it made it a topic of national conversation.

His coming out in and of itself did not, it is the medias and the governments reaction to it that did.

it is an invented event, if you can call it an event, and people are talking about it simply because it has been thrust in our faces from unlikely places.

It's only a big deal because it's a male, and the media has been looking for this for years...
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

It's only a big deal because it's a male, and the media has been looking for this for years...

The point is that it is not a big deal.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

The point is that it is not a big deal.

No, but it is to the media, and that's what counts when discussing national debates...
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

No, but it is to the media, and that's what counts when discussing national debates...

Isn't that sad.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

I got money on the christian side huggers if they ever have a gang war with the Bronies.

Well, the crew did write a song about crapping themselves.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

I was not aware that there was a culture in professional sports that was caustic towards heterosexuals. Wow, so a heterosexual athlete divulging their sexuality could lead to the end of their career or stigmatization in the sport they spent their whole life mastering? Your statement was just so edifying about the commensurate situations between heterosexuals and homosexuals in professional sports that I am truly grateful.

I honestly don't think announcing one was gay is going to end anyone's career. I think of real recognizable players like Jordan, or Byrd, James. If they had said it, no one would care about their sexuality, only if they could play. Collins isn't in that group, so the reaction or lack of a reaction to his future career will be in spotlight by those that profess to know the inner workings of why or why not he continues his career. My guess is that if it continues, some on the right will say that it was because clubs were afraid of looking bad, or, that they gave him another shot as to appear open and tolerant (for whatever that means), similar to white guilt. Conversely, if he never gets another shot, there will be those on the left that will say that it is because the NBA is not as open and tolerant as one would have hoped for. You can't win from either spectrum. I imagine that in the end, like it is with the military, if your of sound character, it matters little what you prefer sexually. Although there are perhaps real legitimate concerns regarding locker rooms, and same sex, but they can be worked out if necessary. It boils down to if you can play, you stay, and it matters little that you happen to be gay! If you can't play and you're gay, it still matters little that you're gay, only that you suck! Pardon the pun. :)


Tim-
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Asante Samuel posed a good question. Why should athletes announce their sexuality? Should ESPN and SI do a spread every time a straight guy announces he likes girls? or are we gonna discriminate there?

Every time they show a pro athlete with their girlfriend/#3/wife/fiance they are announcing it. The whole reason to come out is to not have to *hide* it anymore.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

The person that decided to put him on the cover of the magazine made it a topic of national conversation.

The White House Spokesman commenting on it made it a topic of national conversation.

His coming out in and of itself did not, it is the medias and the governments reaction to it that did.

it is an invented event, if you can call it an event, and people are talking about it simply because it has been thrust in our faces from unlikely places.

Disagree, it would lead to discussion like this thread even if he only said it in a tweet or whatever. It's a big deal like it or not. If it wasn't, there would be dozens of pro athletes who have taken this step by now.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Every time they show a pro athlete with their girlfriend/#3/wife/fiance they are announcing it. The whole reason to come out is to not have to *hide* it anymore.

this is the type of common sense people overlook because of lack of understanding facts and reality.
this guy could have not did it in an interview and just started hung up pics of him and his boyfriend in his locker, showed people on his phone and showed yup to some events holding hands with a guy but guess what, then people would have just made his announcement for him lol. This is a way to halp avoid a lot of questions/speculation.

very similar to when somebody announces they are sick with cancer or a family member is etc. Its so they arent asked every time the go to the water cooler at work or they are at a store etc etc.

People act like he had tons of options.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

I honestly don't think announcing one was gay is going to end anyone's career. I think of real recognizable players like Jordan, or Byrd, James. If they had said it, no one would care about their sexuality, only if they could play. Collins isn't in that group, so the reaction or lack of a reaction to his future career will be in spotlight by those that profess to know the inner workings of why or why not he continues his career. My guess is that if it continues, some on the right will say that it was because clubs were afraid of looking bad, or, that they gave him another shot as to appear open and tolerant (for whatever that means), similar to white guilt. Conversely, if he never gets another shot, there will be those on the left that will say that it is because the NBA is not as open and tolerant as one would have hoped for. You can't win from either spectruagine that in the end, like it is with the military, if your of sound character, it matters little what you prefer sexually. Although there are perhaps real legitimate concerns regarding locker rooms, and same sex, but they can be worked out if necessary. It boils down to if you can play, you stay, and it matters little that you happen to be gay! If you can't play and you're gay, it still matters little that you're gay, only that you suck! Pardon the pun. :)


Tim-

Time will tell.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

I was not aware that there was a culture in professional sports that was caustic towards heterosexuals. Wow, so a heterosexual athlete divulging their sexuality could lead to the end of their career or stigmatization in the sport they spent their whole life mastering? Your statement was just so edifying about the commensurate situations between heterosexuals and homosexuals in professional sports that I am truly grateful.

Being gay won't end a career either. This guys career is garbage regardless of who he has sex with. Do you really think LeBron James, who by most standards is having a good career, would be ran out of the sport if he were gay? **** no he wouldn't. Teams care about money and wins. Not sex. If you can produce, teams will want you.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Every time they show a pro athlete with their girlfriend/#3/wife/fiance they are announcing it. The whole reason to come out is to not have to *hide* it anymore.

they guy didn't get seen with his husband or boyfriend or whatever. He has done multiple interviews, magazine spreads and been all over every media outlet he can find telling everyone who will listen about his sexual preferences. And somehow that is the same as someone going out to dinner with their wife?
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Does your newspaper not carry a crime section or something?

Sure it does. But what is that going to do about reducing it? In case you missed it I was talking about actually discussing more worthwhile things.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Disagree, it would lead to discussion like this thread even if he only said it in a tweet or whatever. It's a big deal like it or not. If it wasn't, there would be dozens of pro athletes who have taken this step by now.

It is a big deal tyo a very small group of people. It is not a big deal to the majority of the American public. Like it or not.

The fact that Obama called the guy personally to tell him he is a good guy for admitting he is gay, is about as rediculous as I have seen.

The media and the White House are making sure this is a big story. It would not be otherwise.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

It is a big deal tyo a very small group of people. It is not a big deal to the majority of the American public. Like it or not.

The fact that Obama called the guy personally to tell him he is a good guy for admitting he is gay, is about as rediculous as I have seen.

The media and the White House are making sure this is a big story. It would not be otherwise.

That's how you push an agenda to a mostly ill informed people. The one's that know all the details will not be swayed, the one's that don't (most of us) will pick a side not necessarily based on objective analysis, but based solely off of what their friends think, or people they admire. What Obama and the left media is doing is not rocket science, it's been tried and tested for centuries, and it ALWAYS works. Right now Obama is on board politically with the gay agenda. It makes perfect sense for him to make that call!


Tim-
 
Re: Rehat he is gay, altering the landscape of sports

The distinction between a pseudo event and a real event is more dependent on actual level of importance. One of the examples of a pseudo event is the presidential debates. Where we know nothing new is going to said and that it will be a general rehashing of campaign material. Clearly "as a nation" it will be something heavily discussed. But its over all significance is still pretty low

Many, if not most, voters get their first real understanding of the candidates' views in the debates. Is that not of actual importance?
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

My point was that a large collection of individuals might find importance in the topic.

And my point is that the above occurring would not make it a topic of national conversation.

Issues on national defense are important to us collectively, because they do have an impact on our lives, regardless of how we perceive them as individuals.

Interesting choice of examples, considering that most things that are actually about national defense are kept secret and considered things that we do not need to know about.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

The person that decided to put him on the cover of the magazine made it a topic of national conversation.

OMG!!!! Why would a sports magazine put a major sports story on their cover?!?!?! WHYYYY!!!!!

The topic of an openly gay active player in one of the four major American team sports has been discussed in great detail over the last few months. The issue was already a topic of conversation across the nation, it merely became a topic of national conversation when the discussion went from the level of speculation to the level of confirmed.

The White House Spokesman commenting on it made it a topic of national conversation.

Sports illustrated ran a sports story. It was a big sports story. That sports story spurred a national conversation. It went from being a simple sports story, reported on by sporting news outlets (like the media outlet that broke the sports story) to a news story almost instantly because it is a big deal.

His coming out in and of itself did not, it is the medias and the governments reaction to it that did.

First: the government didn't react. I see no laws about this. There have been no military actions.

Second: Obviously his coming out WAS a big deal, regardless of YOUR OPINION of it. It's not like this was initially reported by a general news outlet. If it wasn't a big deal, it would have remained on the sports pages where it started.



it is an invented event, if you can call it an event, and people are talking about it simply because it has been thrust in our faces from unlikely places.

Sports illustrated is an unlikely place to report a sports story?

Sadly, it isn't an invented event. Collins IS gay. He IS an "active" player who wishes to continue playing. That is, in and of itself, a sports story because it has never happened in one of the four big American sports before. Much like the story of Jackie Robinson was a big story. And that was only baseball. There had already been black players in the NFL, hell there had been a black coach in the NFL already.

It was initially reported by a sporting news agency. Because it was a big deal, it got picked up by everyone.
 
Re: Rehat he is gay, altering the landscape of sports

Many, if not most, voters get their first real understanding of the candidates' views in the debates. Is that not of actual importance?

Do they?
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp


In that it's impossible to have this talk "as a nation" in the sense you're referring to it. There's no "national" conversation going on in the sense you just stated...there's multiple localized conversations of individuals all across the nation. This isn't a team all in one locker room actively talking to each other. This isn't even a President giving a statement broadcast across the nation in real time on every major network. This is independent collumnists, news commentators, internet blogs, people at water coolers, etc having a conversation about the issue.

Not to mention...you're moving goal posts again. A "Team Meeting" does not require it to be ABOUT an issue relating to the team team. If a coach gets all the team together and decides to ask them all to pray for some kid whose in the hospital with cancer, without referencing the team or sport, that's still him calling a "team meeting" and having a "team prayer" even though its not about a "team issue".

Or if you want to use your example...if Bill Bellicheck called the team into a meeting, had them take a knee, and then proceeded to talk about Kim Kardashians Vag and how fine her ass is and asked for their opinions on it....that's still a TEAM MEETING because it's a MEETING with the TEAM. Even though it doesn't have one thing to do with the team at all (unless the Patriots traded for Reggie Bush ;) ).

A "Team Discussion" is one had with the team about ANYTHING, so long as it's a discussion with the team

A "Team Discussion of a team issue" would be a team discussion about something directly relating to the team.

One can have a conversation on a national level without it being a "national topic". If you wanted the TOPIC to also be of significant importance to the nation then you should've included an adjective prior to that as well. You didn't. If you meant for it to be included that's fine...then admit you messed up how you originally typed it in terms of your intent.

Where you place adjectives does matter. You place national prior to conversation, suggesting it needed to be a conversation held at a national level.

Now I assumed...because I figured you're not crazy...you didn't mean that in a literal sense that the ENTIRE NATION was having a discussion with itself or was being directly spoken to, ala a "team meeting". If that assumption is wrong and your previous statements in your "clarifying" posts is correct...then that's even more asinine and even more incorrect. If that assumption is correct...then you're basically agreeing with me.

Your issue is you are now...AFTER THE FACT...trying to claim that the TOPIC must be of national importance. Nothing in your statement or your wording of the statement suggests that. Nothing. No definition of it that I've seen. You see, I actually provided definitions...all you've done is go "No you're wrong, you read it wrong".

I'll ask again...give me something fact based or reference based to show me how your reasoning of it is correct.
 
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