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Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sports

Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Erod said:
You're making a strawman argument regarding men feeling like they're the targets of gay men. That's simply not true. It's the sexual genetic deviance itself that is the gorilla in the room - or locker room in this instance - not a perceived "threat". Homosexuality is not normal, as much as you desperately want it to be. It's a mutation for some, a choice for others, but it's not normal. THAT is what weirds sexually normal people out, some more than others.

I know and like a few gay people. But that doesn't mean I recognize or accept their lifestyle as everyday ho-hum normal.

Regarding your obsession with this idiotic educational/financial concoction of a "study", think about how utterly preposterous it is to (1) believe an accurate "study" is even possible of something like this, and (2) that a sexual mutation like this can translate into higher education and financial responsibility. LOL

That's a PRIME example of engineering a study to exactly what you want it to reflect, then feeding it to the needy who desperately want it to be true. Today's "scientific studies" are most often predetermined opinions added to manipulated data.

How you use your anus doesn't mean you understand quantum physics and the stock market better. LOL
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Ah, so you're degraded into the same old tired nonsense when your egotistical frame of thinking is exposed. The best part is that you think correlation between homosexuality, higher education and income can't be measured. When it absolutely can. The best part is that you're still trying to claim I said homosexuality = higher education, social status. Your lack of understanding now spans 4 pages.

Homosexuality isn't normal, studies are wrong, you could AT LEAST pretend you didn't get your borderline asinine ego handed back to you with the kind of logical framework that debunks any claims that you have something a gay would want to begin with.

Here, I've got a clue for you:

1. Nobody is trying to get in your pants.
2. Even if you were naked in a locker room, being in the closet/out gay man staring at you fantasy/fetish/nightmare isn't going to happen.
3. If you still believe it will, you probably have some insecurity issues to deal with. They come hand in hand with believing that any woman who talks to you at a bar is trying to sleep with you.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Zyphlin said:
Notice where I'm saying it's hard to say without knowing the enormous complexity going on mentally in his situation? And how I used words like "seemed" to suggest that what I was saying was my guess based off his words? Yes, I made an assumption...and PRESENTED it and stated it in a way that made it clear it was an assumption.

Now go back to your post where you state your assumption as if it's a fact. That's the issue. You want to make an assumption and a guess as to why he did it and provide evidence to back it up? Sure, go ahead. I may disagree with you as may others, but that's what we're all doing here...speculating. But if you ignorantly want to proclaim your assumption as some kind of actual truth and then muse how "odd" it is that people aren't reacting the same way to you, as if your view of it is somehow the unquestioned truth, then yeah...I'll call bull****.

But thanks for the sad attempt to equate what I posted to what you posted...it was good for a laugh.
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And just where have I presented ANYTHING in this thread as fact? My reaction to this turd burglar's coming out was minor. In fact I said who cares, however, my reaction to the way he treated this poor woman was legitimate, based mostly on the available information, and appropriate. The fact that you seem to give him a pass is your right, I on the other hand am not so lenient. I wouldn't normally care one iota but the media propping this guy up as some virtue of honor and courage is what gets the hair on my neck to stand up; when in reality he "appears" to be a self serving attention whore, who would rather proclaim his intentions to the media rather than make sure that the girl he brought along for his complex sexual discovery ride for 7 years knew in advance.

What kind of noble honorable guy would do that? Answer, NO ONE would, so keep on keeping on brother. My disdain for Collins has nothing to do with his sexuality, it is and always is about his character. He lacks one, by all available instances!

Tim-
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

ChrisL said:
So what? Does that mean I have to be accepting of that? That's exactly the point I'm making, is that the news leaves out a lot of actual news.
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of course not! thats not what i meant at all i was just asking why you expected different since the news has been ****ty for awhile

I agree with you 100% news SHOULD be about actually objective honest news but sadly that hasnt been going on for along time. Its pathetic but thats what i expect from them especially MSNBC and FOX the worse of the worst but i would LIKE and I WANT different :(
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Zyphlin said:
Well...."alter the landscape of [the big four men's] sport." ;)

I can't lie, I chuckled seeing someone say Britney Griner is still the most talented gay basketball player. It was a good twitter zing.
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I don't know, Nancy Lieberman was pretty good. She was also married to a man for 13 years....so there's that tie-in as well for those of you in a tizzy about Collins' old lady.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Hicup said:
1.)So there was an impact?
2.)A few vocal in support of Collins coming out,
3.(but what of the 100's perhaps 1000's that laughed and scoffed with friends privately?
4.) What about the few brave enough to vocalize that Collins coming out will have deleterious effects in locker rooms, hazing, teasing etc.. So my question is a legitimate one.
5.) Was the impact generally positive or negative, and how do you know?
6.) Additionally, you say there was change? What changed? Can you articulate any of what your saying to any degree of credibility using logic and sound reasoning?


Tim-
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1.)yep and thats all that needs said :D
2.) and it was more than a FEW LMAO, it was many and important figures IN THE NBA family (ex and current players coaches, owners and THE PRESIDENT OF THE LEAGUE lol)
3.) there could be MILLIONS of non-nba people that disagree, they arent in the landscape nor do their opinions matter to that landscape
4.) again those few dont change that there was an impact and thats not new, there were people that were just suspected og being gay that went through it. And now if that happens they look even more stupid, retard, mornoic and bigoted when theres so much support out there for this guy if they actually do that idiotic stuff. SO legitimate question or not, the impact is still present, it has ZERO barring on its presence.
5.) Generally? I can only go by the people that are in that league and they say yes
6.) again read the thread, i already spent pages going over it, not doing it again and the people in the leagues agree
7.) see number 6, already done and the people in the league ego the same things

like i said, impact to the NBA is factual, nobody honest and intelligent would deny that. How much or how little is debatable. The impact to the NBA from the evidence we have seems mostly positive, theres no other evidence to suggest otherwise.

SO nothing as changed, an impact is factual :shrug: nothing will change this fact.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

AGENT J said:
1.)yep and thats all that needs said :D
2.) and it was more than a FEW LMAO, it was many and important figures IN THE NBA family (ex and current players coaches, owners and THE PRESIDENT OF THE LEAGUE lol)
3.) there could be MILLIONS of non-nba people that disagree, they arent in the landscape nor do their opinions matter to that landscape
4.) again those few dont change that there was an impact and thats not new, there were people that were just suspected og being gay that went through it. And now if that happens they look even more stupid, retard, mornoic and bigoted when theres so much support out there for this guy if they actually do that idiotic stuff. SO legitimate question or not, the impact is still present, it has ZERO barring on its presence.
5.) Generally? I can only go by the people that are in that league and they say yes
6.) again read the thread, i already spent pages going over it, not doing it again and the people in the leagues agree
7.) see number 6, already done and the people in the league ego the same things

like i said, impact to the NBA is factual, nobody honest and intelligent would deny that. How much or how little is debatable. The impact to the NBA from the evidence we have seems mostly positive, theres no other evidence to suggest otherwise.

SO nothing as changed, an impact is factual :shrug: nothing will change this fact.
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You do realize that the NBA is the blackest of the four American sports, right? Now, although not conclusive evidence, it does correlate well that the general population is about 50/50 on gay related civil issues, however in the black and Hispanic communities, the numbers are much lower in support. The polls are varied but as much as 70% of blacks are opposed to homosexuality, and it would carry over to the NBA in similar fashion I would imagine. So, again, you FAIL miserably when challenged to provide data for your conclusions. I at least approach the topic with measurable data that can at least be debated, whereas you provide nothing but.. Well nothing at all really. :)

Tim-
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Do you people realize that basketball is not a sexual contact sport? Everyone is making a huge deal out of this. Quite possibly the worst center in the NBA is making a last ditch effort to become relevant and maybe extend his career by using his sexual preference to draw in some fans. Who these people are ****ing is not relevant to the game of basketball. Does this guy being gay make him a good basketball player? Does it change his career? No. It doesn't. But now this guy who none of you have ever given two ****s about is suddenly hero. Being gay is not heroic. Sex is not a heroic act by any means at all. But suddenly this guy is plastered all over every sports network, and millions of people who know nothing about this guy other than the fact that he enjoys sex with men, are now in love and he is so brave. Exploiting idiots to try to further a career and hopefully make a bunch of money off of sex is not heroic. Not by a long a shot. Be smarter than this. The guy is going to get shat loads of money on tv and book circuits and who knows what else because he has sex with men. He didn't come out in public because it was the right thing to do, he came out to exploit a bunch of idiots for money.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Zyphlin said:
1. A terrible player doesn't stay in the NBA for over a decade. He's not a superstar, but he's been a solid role player filling a role most teams like to have...big man depth.
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compared to you and me he's not a terrible player. compared to the average guy in the NBA, he is a terrible player. He's spent his career being a bit-player bouncing from team to team (7 teams in 12 years). His most notable achievment is that he lead the league in personal fouls in 2004 with 322. In fact, he has 2026 (that's about 169 per season) personal fouls in 12 years, despite not being a major player in terms of minutes played.


Also, I get your attempt at a joke at the end but it's highlighting the problem in your argument here. The fact this IS making headlines and is getting talked about and has been getting such attention means it's at least somewhat note worthy within the public consiousness. I don't think it will have a lasting impact or a sizable mark in history due to him being quasi-active at this point, on the very tail end of his career at best, and not a "sexy" name or even a well known one. But that doesn't mean the immediete impact and scope isn't at least buzz generating and of some note.
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my point is not "IS" it making headlines, but rather "should" it be making headlines. sure, it has created some buzz. but, as you've said, it is very doubtful that he will be "the guy" remembered in the same context as a Jackie Robinson.

A no-name player at the tail end of his career coming out is not going to have the same impact as a big-name guy doing the same or a young no-name doing it at the beginning/middle of a career.


As I've said, this was a very "low-risk" move on his part, professionally and I just don't think it deserves all the hype/hoopla it has generated.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

AGENT J said:
like i said, impact to the NBA is factual, nobody honest and intelligent would deny that.
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If it's factual, you can prove it. Hearsay doesn't count for proof, even though you like to use it a lot (Oh so and so said this, and that dude said that...).

Selectively published quotes is not scientific study. You seem to confuse that too. The TRUE statement, that any honest and intelligent person would say would be that "right now there's a lot of speculation, there's a lot of talk. There is potential for some good to come out of it, it can have a positive impact on the perception of gay athletes; but as to that we'll have to wait and see. "

And that is the most correct, honest statement backed by current measurements one can make. Not "factual" impact, but possible impact.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Hicup said:
You do realize that the NBA is the blackest of the four American sports, right? Now, although not conclusive evidence, it does correlate well that the general population is about 50/50 on gay related civil issues, however in the black and Hispanic communities, the numbers are much lower in support. The polls are varied but as much as 70% of blacks are opposed to homosexuality, and it would carry over to the NBA in similar fashion I would imagine. So, again, you FAIL miserably when challenged to provide data for your conclusions. I at least approach the topic with measurable data that can at least be debated, whereas you provide nothing but.. Well nothing at all really. :)

Tim-
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current data doesnt not support that, the most recent shows the majority (51-54% cant remember) of blacks support SSM and then even more at the younger age bracket of the NBA :shrug:
so theres no failure at all, that was actually in a thread here titled "gay president" go check it out

oh yeah and this strawman also does NOTHING to the fact that there was an impact says the people of the NBA :) So yes i agree you presented, well, nothing at all really :D
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Hicup said:
And just where have I presented ANYTHING in this thread as fact? My reaction to this turd burglar's coming out was minor. In fact I said who cares, however, my reaction to the way he treated this poor woman was legitimate, based mostly on the available information, and appropriate. The fact that you seem to give him a pass is your right, I on the other hand am not so lenient. I wouldn't normally care one iota but the media propping this guy up as some virtue of honor and courage is what gets the hair on my neck to stand up; when in reality he "appears" to be a self serving attention whore, who would rather proclaim his intentions to the media rather than make sure that the girl he brought along for his complex sexual discovery ride for 7 years knew in advance.

What kind of noble honorable guy would do that? Answer, NO ONE would, so keep on keeping on brother. My disdain for Collins has nothing to do with his sexuality, it is and always is about his character. He lacks one, by all available instances!

Tim-
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The funny part is that you don't see the disconnect.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Ikari said:
If it's factual, you can prove it. Hearsay doesn't count for proof, even though you like to use it a lot (Oh so and so said this, and that dude said that...).

Selectively published quotes is not scientific study. You seem to confuse that too. The TRUE statement, that any honest and intelligent person would say would be that "right now there's a lot of speculation, there's a lot of talk. There is potential for some good to come out of it, it can have a positive impact on the perception of gay athletes; but as to that we'll have to wait and see. "

And that is the most correct, honest statement backed by current measurements one can make. Not "factual" impact, but possible impact.
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already proved BY THE PEOPLE OF THE NBA LMAO
are you seriously trying to convince people of this scientific study BS deflection LMAO
and now you bring up hearsay and court of law???

wow you are desperate, yes of course the views of the people actually in the NBA are meaningless to you because they prove you wrong, whos words should we use? yours? LMAO no thanks ill believe the people of the NBA since, well, oh yeah they are in the NBA:lamo:
and the true statement is an impact has already factually happened and is already factually present, hence all the reality happening right now, this fact will not change no matter your emotions.

Now we dont know how "possibly" FAR the impact will be or how "possibly" big the impact will be but the impact is already here and already happening. Again nobody intelligent and honest would deny this fact. But please continue because its hilarious watching you lie and make up arguments and trying to reframe every post. Good luck. Is that letter written yet? Can i read it before you send it? I wanna see how you tell them all that they are wrong and liars.
 
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Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

AGENT J said:
current data doesnt not support that, the most recent shows the majority (51-54% cant remember) of blacks support SSM and then even more at the younger age bracket of the NBA :shrug:
so theres no failure at all, that was actually in a thread here titled "gay president" go check it out

oh yeah and this strawman also does NOTHING to the fact that there was an impact says the people of the NBA :) So yes i agree you presented, well, nothing at all really :D
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In Prop 8 70% of blacks opposed gay marriage according to exit polls. Why is that important? Because exit polling is more reliable than your average run of the mill poll, why? Because people actually vote on the issue. You fail! Again!


Tim-
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

AGENT J said:
of course not! thats not what i meant at all i was just asking why you expected different since the news has been ****ty for awhile

I agree with you 100% news SHOULD be about actually objective honest news but sadly that hasnt been going on for along time. Its pathetic but thats what i expect from them especially MSNBC and FOX the worse of the worst but i would LIKE and I WANT different :(
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Very true. :roll:
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Redress said:
The funny part is that you don't see the disconnect.
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yeah i didnt get that either, all the evidence seems opposite of what you bolded
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

AGENT J said:
current data doesnt not support that, the most recent shows the majority (51-54% cant remember) of blacks support SSM and then even more at the younger age bracket of the NBA :shrug:
so theres no failure at all, that was actually in a thread here titled "gay president" go check it out
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actually we just discussed this and I pointed out how the polling data you were citing was a bit flawed (on the point of African Americans, it was using an extremely small sample size). And while evidence does indicate a softening around the gay issue with african americans, that seems more dependent on it being an Obama policy position, as opposed to actual support for gay marriage.


It's a very important distinction when we are discussing acceptance of such a lifestyle
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Redress said:
The funny part is that you don't see the disconnect.
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He is a turd burglar, pillow biter, whatever you want to call it, so what. :) What that's not funny?

Making fun of him doesn't mean my disdain in this context is at his character, not his stealing of turds.. :)

Tim-
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Hicup said:
In Prop 8 70% of blacks opposed gay marriage according to exit polls. Why is that important? Because exit polling is more reliable than your average run of the mill poll, why? Because people actually vote on the issue. You fail! Again!


Tim-
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ok :shrug:
ZERO impact to the fact begin discussed in this thread LOL

strawman failed, keep up the good work though tim

let me know when this fat changes
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

AGENT J said:
already proved BY THE PEOPLE OF THE NBA LMAO
are you seriously trying to convince people of this scientific study BS deflection LMAO
and now you bring up hearsay and court of law???
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Quit lying, I never brought up a court of law. I said hearsay isn't evidence. LMAO, how desperate you must be to deflect against backing up anything you say.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Dr. Chuckles said:
actually we just discussed this and I pointed out how the polling data you were citing was a bit flawed (on the point of African Americans, it was using an extremely small sample size). And while evidence does indicate a softening around the gay issue with african americans, that seems more dependent on it being an Obama policy position, as opposed to actual support for gay marriage.


It's a very important distinction when we are discussing acceptance of such a lifestyle
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yes you did give me your opinion on that and yet it did soften no matter the reason and yet it still has nothing to do with the thread/fact being discussed

thanks though :shrug:
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

AGENT J said:
ok :shrug:
ZERO impact to the fact begin discussed in this thread LOL

strawman failed, keep up the good work though tim

let me know when this fat changes
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Well except that I am providing an actual argument based on available data. I am extrapolating this data in the context of this discussion on the likelihood that a predominantly black sport, will be accepting of a homosexual when the demographics nationally say otherwise. ...And you have provided diddly squat in opposition. :)


By the way do you even KNOW what a strawman is?

Tim-
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

Ikari said:
Quit lying, I never brought up a court of law. I said hearsay isn't evidence. LMAO, how desperate you must be to deflect against backing up anything you say.
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you are 100% correct, i assumed wrong and was knee jerk. I thought that you meant hearsay and evidence in a legal sense, silly me.
I stand corrected and you are 100% right and my assumption was 100% wrong. You did not say court of law. see how easy that is, this is called integrity. LMAO

oh yeah back on topic.
I backed up everythig i said, all of it. THe NBA backs me up, who do you have again?
Fact is there was an impact and you cant change that fact :D
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

AGENT J said:
Fact is there was an impact and you cant change that fact :D
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fact is that everything that happens has an "impact". The waterboy for the L.A. Clippers farted... there was an impact.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

AGENT J said:
ok :shrug:
ZERO impact to the fact begin discussed in this thread LOL
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I'm not sure how it can have zero impact and be a strawman when it's addressing data you cited.
 
Re: Jason Collins (NBA Center) announces that he is gay, altering the landscape of sp

AGENT J said:
you are 100% correct, i assumed wrong and was knee jerk. I thought that you meant hearsay and evidence in a legal sense, silly me.
I stand corrected and you are 100% right and my assumption was 100% wrong. You did not say court of law. see how easy that is, this is called integrity. LMAO

oh yeah back on topic.
I backed up everythig i said, all of it. THe NBA backs me up, who do you have again?
Fact is there was an impact and you cant change that fact :D
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People in the NBA have said things, anyone can say things. Words are wind. Actions are what matter, and actions can be measured. Without measurement, you cannot claim something to be "factual". I would fully expect the higher ups in the NBA to support Collins and claim it's a bold move. There's no way they would come out against him, that would be a PR nightmare. They'll stay away from it. They won't publish derogatory or denigrating comments either for pretty much the same reason. The NBA has to keep up appearances and image. So I'm not surprised that we have heard in the press what we have heard in the press.

Selected commentary and quotes do not make evidence, however. It's only words, and not even a full statistical analysis of all comments made; just a few selected. We have to wait and see if there is a factual impact demonstrated through action and statistically resolved from background. It's the only way you can claim "factual".
 
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