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US suspects Syria used chemical weapons [W:284]

Sherman123 said:
The President was foolish to back himself into a rhetorical corner by calling chemical weapons a red line in the conflict. Damascus is calling his bluff and now the administration is going to be forced to equivocate (I predict) on the differentiation between small scale use and large scale use. Then at some future point when there is a larger more public display and usage of the weapons we'll see another round of equivocation about how this isn't quite far enough. It is severely damaging to our reputation and hurts our ability to influence the conflict in the future because it degrades the value of our promises for action or support. Maybe I'm wrong but I'd be extremely surprised if this President engaged militarily whatsoever in Syria regardless of what happens.
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He's backed himself into too many corners and everyone now knows his words mean nothing.

I rather doubt he will act militarily and obviously America's enemies know this as well. Even if he did, briefly, it would be only be short term satisfaction to save some face.
 
Dittohead not! said:
You mean you think he was just looking in the wrong country?
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The Iraqi general, Georges Sada, makes the charges in a new book, "Saddam's Secrets," released this week. He detailed the transfers in an interview yesterday with The New York Sun.

"There are weapons of mass destruction gone out from Iraq to Syria, and they must be found and returned to safe hands," Mr. Sada said. "I am confident they were taken over."
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I just picked the first link that I found.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Right.
and with Egypt as well
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Yep them too...That is the reason why I think we should step back and do nothing. It is a tragedy that over 70,000 have died. It is horrid that the Assad regime would use chemical weapons on his own people. It not our business though. We can grieve and hope for the best, but to intervene when we know so little about who we are helping would be profoundly naive.
 
AreteCourage said:
Yep them too...That is the reason why I think we should step back and do nothing. It is a tragedy that over 70,000 have died. It is horrid that the Assad regime would use chemical weapons on his own people. It not our business though. We can grieve and hope for the best, but to intervene when we know so little about who we are helping would be profoundly naive.
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The destruction of the Asad regime would be a major blow against Iran, and therefore a good thing for the US.:cool:
 
Jack Hays said:
The destruction of the Asad regime would be a major blow against Iran, and therefore a good thing for the US.:cool:
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Iran is no threat to us at all. They don't have the capability to attack us.

Syria maybe allies to Iran under Assad regime, but what says it won't be with these groups who we don't know? We have no idea who we would be supporting.
 
AreteCourage said:
Iran is no threat to us at all. They don't have the capability to attack us.

Syria maybe allies to Iran under Assad regime, but what says it won't be with these groups who we don't know? We have no idea who we would be supporting.
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The Asad regime is based on an ethnic minority that is Shia by religion. That makes them a religious minority too, and is the basis of the Iran alliance. That is also why they support Hezbollah in Lebanon. Without Syria, Hezbollah would smother. This would ease pressure on Israel and make war in the middle east much less likely.:cool:
 
Jack Hays said:
The Asad regime is based on an ethnic minority that is Shia by religion. That makes them a religious minority too, and is the basis of the Iran alliance. That is also why they support Hezbollah in Lebanon. Without Syria, Hezbollah would smother. This would ease pressure on Israel and make war in the middle east much less likely.:cool:
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Are the rebels Sunni, then? Is this in reality a religious war? If so, then we want to stay as far away from it as we possibly can.
 
Jack Hays said:
The Asad regime is based on an ethnic minority that is Shia by religion. That makes them a religious minority too, and is the basis of the Iran alliance. That is also why they support Hezbollah in Lebanon. Without Syria, Hezbollah would smother. This would ease pressure on Israel and make war in the middle east much less likely.:cool:
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You are assuming that all the rebel groups are Sunni. That may not be the case. We shouldn't assume in this matter.

Israel can take care of itself. We need to ease up the obsession with that country as it is.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Are the rebels Sunni, then? Is this in reality a religious war? If so, then we want to stay as far away from it as we possibly can.
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Most of the Syrian population is Sunni, so it's almost certain that most of the rebels are Sunni. The Saudis, Jordanians, Omanis and Kuwaitis are Sunnis, as are the north Africans from Morocco to Egypt, and nearly all sub-Saharan Muslims. We get along very well with most of those. :cool:
 
AreteCourage said:
You are assuming that all the rebel groups are Sunni. That may not be the case. We shouldn't assume in this matter.

Israel can take care of itself. We need to ease up the obsession with that country as it is.
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The vast majority of Syrians are Sunni. Therefore it's extremely likely the vast majority of rebels are Sunni. The way to be less obsessed with Israel is for Israel to feel less threatened.:cool:
 
Jack Hays said:
Most of the Syrian population is Sunni, so it's almost certain that most of the rebels are Sunni. The Saudis, Jordanians, Omanis and Kuwaitis are Sunnis, as are the north Africans from Morocco to Egypt, and nearly all sub-Saharan Muslims. We get along very well with most of those. :cool:
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So, it's not necessarily a people rising up and throwing off a dictator, but a Sunni population wanting to replace a Shia dictator.

Well, it's well that we can get along with one of the factions, at least.

But, let's not pretend that we're going to fight for democracy in Syria.
 
Jack Hays said:
The vast majority of Syrians are Sunni. Therefore it's extremely likely the vast majority of rebels are Sunni. The way to be less obsessed with Israel is for Israel to feel less threatened.:cool:
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That again assumes it to be fact. Extremely likely doesn't mean absolutely and that isn't a chance we should take quite frankly.

The way to be less obsessed with Israel is to allow them to make their own decisions and stop sending them so much when we don't have the money. We're in a huge deficit....Israel can take care of themselves.
 
Dittohead not! said:
So, it's not necessarily a people rising up and throwing off a dictator, but a Sunni population wanting to replace a Shia dictator.

Well, it's well that we can get along with one of the factions, at least.

But, let's not pretend that we're going to fight for democracy in Syria.
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It's a genuine popular uprising. It would not have endured if it were not. The majority is rising up against decades of minority rule.:cool:
 
Jack Hays said:
It's a genuine popular uprising. It would not have endured if it were not. The majority is rising up against decades of minority rule.:cool:
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OK, but are they rising up to create a peaceful democratic republic, or to simply institute another theocracy/dictatorship with the majority calling the shots?
 
AreteCourage said:
That again assumes it to be fact. Extremely likely doesn't mean absolutely and that isn't a chance we should take quite frankly.

The way to be less obsessed with Israel is to allow them to make their own decisions and stop sending them so much when we don't have the money. We're in a huge deficit....Israel can take care of themselves.
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If you want to be certain to provoke a middle east war that will certainly draw in the US then make Israel feel alone and weak in the face of their enemies. The policy you advocate is the one most likely to cause war that will involve the US.:cool:
 
Jack Hays said:
The vast majority of Syrians are Sunni. Therefore it's extremely likely the vast majority of rebels are Sunni. The way to be less obsessed with Israel is for Israel to feel less threatened.:cool:
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Good evening, Jack. :2wave:

Would you know which of the two factions, Sunni or Shia, might be considered the most strict in their religious beliefs, ie, more modern vs old school? If there is not much difference, what is the cause of the uprising, other than dislike of the other party? They all had to start from one source, so to speak.
 
polgara said:
Good evening, Jack. :2wave:

Would you know which of the two factions, Sunni or Shia, might be considered the most strict in their religious beliefs, ie, more modern vs old school? If there is not much difference, what is the cause of the uprising, other than dislike of the other party? They all had to start from one source, so to speak.
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The split goes back 1400 years so I don't think I can sum it up here. Both sides have more tolerant and less tolerant wings. Good evening, Polgara.:2wave:
 
TheDemSocialist said:
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Read more and video @: US suspects Syria used chemical weapons - Middle East - Al Jazeera English

Chemical weapons may have been used in Syria but on a small scale. Intelligence is not 100% sure but it seems they may have been used but dont know how they were "used".
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Currently the evidence that the Syrian gov used chemical weapons is inconclusive at best. (Why would Assad use chemical weapons? - The Week)

Jean-Pascal Zanders of the European Institute of Security Studies in Paris maintains that images circulated on the internet of the alleged attacks do not suggest a nerve gas like sarin. "There are no convulsions or dead bodies," he says, "only single patients being treated in crowded emergency rooms. I'd expect clusters of casualties, and deaths." Moreover, no one seems to have been exposed to nerve agents due to handling victims.

Only one in a series of four such videos "shows any real poisoning symptoms", says Richard Guthrie, an independent CW expert, formally at the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute.​

Source: Threatwatch: Did Syria use chemical weapons or not? - 26 April 2013 - New Scientist
 
Mr. Invisible said:
Currently the evidence that the Syrian gov used chemical weapons is inconclusive at best. (Why would Assad use chemical weapons? - The Week)

Jean-Pascal Zanders of the European Institute of Security Studies in Paris maintains that images circulated on the internet of the alleged attacks do not suggest a nerve gas like sarin. "There are no convulsions or dead bodies," he says, "only single patients being treated in crowded emergency rooms. I'd expect clusters of casualties, and deaths." Moreover, no one seems to have been exposed to nerve agents due to handling victims.

Only one in a series of four such videos "shows any real poisoning symptoms", says Richard Guthrie, an independent CW expert, formally at the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute.​

Source: Threatwatch: Did Syria use chemical weapons or not? - 26 April 2013 - New Scientist
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Did Obama say that "the use of any chemical weapons in Syria would change the calculus", or did he not?

What do you think he meant by that?

Empty threat?
Strong letter?
....
Nothing?

Now, all the sudden it's about the amount used?

Obama is feckless, and the world knows it.
 
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