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Thread: US suspects Syria used chemical weapons [W:284]

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    Re: US suspects Syria used chemical weapons [W:284]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    We definitely target civilian locals and rain death from above.
    That's disconnected.

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    Re: US suspects Syria used chemical weapons [W:284]

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    That's disconnected.
    Is it? Or is it that you need it to be disconnected?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: US suspects Syria used chemical weapons [W:284]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Is it? Or is it that you need it to be disconnected?
    The US does not target civilians. Unless every elected federal official is in on such a conspiracy, it cannot be. Using a CT that encompasses all of congress, the executive and vast numbers within the judicial to justify a ridiculous statement is disconnected.

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    Re: US suspects Syria used chemical weapons [W:284]

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    The US does not target civilians. Unless every elected federal official is in on such a conspiracy, it cannot be. Using a CT that encompasses all of congress, the executive and vast numbers within the judicial to justify a ridiculous statement is disconnected.
    We've never purposefully targeted civilians then, that's your take? We've never marginalized civilian casualty? It's an interesting opinion for sure, though I'm not sure if it's 100% correct.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: US suspects Syria used chemical weapons [W:284]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    We've never purposefully targeted civilians then, that's your take?
    Are you redefining the word 'targeted'? Purposefully targeted is redundant.

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    Re: US suspects Syria used chemical weapons [W:284]

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Are you redefining the word 'targeted'? Purposefully targeted is redundant.
    Just trying to be clear, what are your answers to those questions?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: US suspects Syria used chemical weapons [W:284]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    We've never marginalized civilian casualty? It's an interesting opinion for sure, though I'm not sure if it's 100% correct.
    Collateral damage is a difficult equation. When the US has erred, it admits those mistakes and even pays the victims. While one can calculate collateral damage by their own standards, the fact remains that the US tries to reduce civilian casualties. Actually, the killing of the terrorists does that as well.

    If one cannot differentiate between targeting terrorists and targeting civilians, then there's really no debate to be had.

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    Re: US suspects Syria used chemical weapons [W:284]

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Collateral damage is a difficult equation. When the US has erred, it admits those mistakes and even pays the victims. While one can calculate collateral damage by their own standards, the fact remains that the US tries to reduce civilian casualties. Actually, the killing of the terrorists does that as well.

    If one cannot differentiate between targeting terrorists and targeting civilians, then there's really no debate to be had.
    No, the real problem is that people want to treat "targeting terrorists" and "targeting civilians" as completely separable equations. They're in fact coupled, particularly as warfare takes us into civilian populations. If you drop a bomb on a terrorist who happens to also be in a city and you take out a couple blocks, you knowingly hit those civilians. You may be thinking "I don't want to, I'll try to minimize this" but you know full well what you are doing and the death you are accepting.

    The US kills way more people than terrorists, particularly as we engage in interventionist, imperial, forever war. Actions have consequences and we need to be aware of it. This shrugging of the shoulders and claiming "oh well, we hit some terrorists" is the sort of marginalization of human life that allows for humanity to continually be at war with itself instead of trying to actually solve its problems. It just sort of feeds the cycle of hate and war; which if you like those things then I suppose you're spot on. But it's not a very good position, not IMO anyway.

    If one cannot admit and acknowledge that by endorsing military attack and campaign in civilian areas that they are knowingly accepting the deaths of civilians to accomplish there goal, then there's really no debate to be had.

    So, there's never been a point ever where the US attacked an enemy for the specific purpose of creating civilian casualty?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: US suspects Syria used chemical weapons [W:284]

    I blew your initial statement totally out of the water, forcing you to retreat into "well, that depends what 'targeted' means!!" Then I answered your loaded little side questions honestly.

    What more do you want?

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    Re: US suspects Syria used chemical weapons [W:284]

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Yes, except we are killing mass murderers and they target civilians.
    Both sides target civilians. You essentially admitted it yourself.


    For terrorists, collateral damage is the only damage.
    Not true. Like the US military, they also target political leaders, military leaders, and soldiers.



    The West, however, does not target civilians.
    Completely untrue.
    Mukaradeeb wedding party massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    The mere belief that one is doing good is insufficient; there must be 'objective' analysis.
    Terrorists are not mindless. They have specific objectives.



    Your retreat is untenable. This position is not respectable.
    Lol, there is no retreat. I am exposing you to unsanitized reality. But not everyone likes it.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

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