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Paris Riots After Gay Marriage Vote

I should have regard for mob mentality why exactly? Bigots are bigots, doesn't matter how many there are.

Because in France that's how they express their democracy - through protest and riot. Been that way the last 60+ years I've been alive and it continues on. And unless you are a French citizen no one is asking you to have regard for anyone in this situation.
 
Gay Marriage is not a Civil Right

Gay Marriage is not real marriage

It never will be



Not even remotely close to the rest of humanity. Gay Marriage is not real marriage. It serves no social or economic purpose to humanity.

But thank you for sharing

Just because you say so,doesn't make it so.

Maybe you got married to serve some "social or economic purpose" to humanity,but I got married to my wife because that was the woman I wanted to spend the rest of my life with.
Me and Selena just doesn't give a crap what the rest of humanity thinks about our marriage.We don't need your approval,Bronson.We have each other,and that's all that matters to us.

I don't know what goes on in your marriage,but in my marriage to Selena,we've endured good times,we endured bad times,we nursed each other through sickness, we raised three children (from my first marriage,Selena can't have children due to cancer)we argue with one another,we've had epic fights, doors have been slammed,couches slept on,we have passionate make up sex,we've laughed with each other,shed tears for one another,we've been faithful to one another,sometimes we are angry with one another,but at all time we love each other.
Most of all,through thick and thin, we have each others back.
That is what a REAL MARRIAGE is all about.
Not some piece of paper or a word in a dictionary.
Are you saying that Gay people are incapable of going through the things I described above?


Are you aware of the many times I have stated on this forum that I own a catering and banquet hall business,and gay weddings put thousands and thousands of dollars into my own pocket.
Money that is thus taxed by our government.
 
The civil unions ship sailed when 20 states passed Constitutional bans on them. Can you name one state that has repealed such a ban in a good faith attempt to "compromise"? You are right about one thing...you cannot legislate social acceptance. But social acceptance does come as more people see it is safe to come out to their family and friends because of legislation that protects gays.

That's a good question and the answer has already been provided. What happened to civil union legislation, both state and federal, is an intense reaction to the push for homosexual marriage and nothing else will satisfy. You managed to rile up the opposition and pissed off many of those who would go for equal rights civil unions (calling them bigot and homophobes definitely doesn't help your cause).
 
At what point in the article did it say they were 'brainwashed?"

Effectively heteronormative children came out of homosexual households as homosexual. You do the math.

Secondly, we don't really know the cause of homosexuality, so neither of us can make a claim on how it might influence them versus genetics

We know that homosexuals parents are more likely to raise homosexual children. Frankly, this is more than enough justification for the practice to be banned in my book.

Why on earth would we ever need more homosexuals? What possible good could that do for society?

I am not ignoring anything.

You are denying that men are naturally evolved to be fathers and that women are naturally evolved to be mothers by implying that the sex of the parents in question does not matter.

You would have to "ignore" quite a few objective facts to seriously believe any argument so certifibly false.

What do you mean, no? That there aren't piss poor mothers/fathers, or that it doesn't depend on the individual?

On average, a heterosexual male is going to make a much better father than a lesbian female. There might a few exceptions here and there, but that hardly changes the general rule.

It also cuts both ways.

A piss poor lesbian "father" is going to be far worse than the normal variety.

It is neither unnecessary nor problematic. You're inventing problems.

If a given thing has never existed before and society has gotten on just fine without it, it is by very definition "unnecessary."

I have already given you several reasons why it is problematic. A same sex couple are never going to be as efficient a parenting team as a heterosexual couple.

Tell that to all the kids who are raised by a healthy and loving gay couple.

Tell it to this guy: Two Lesbians Raised a Baby and This Is What They Got - YouTube

One example sets a trend? :roll:

It's perfectly possible for a couple of drug addicts or satanic cultists to raise a more or less normal child. Should they be allowed to adopt as well?

Finally, you draw out the traditional values card. I almost didn't think you would.

It's a perfectly valid point. The Left's major goal in all of this is to destroy the traditional family unit. It always has been.
 
Because in France that's how they express their democracy - through protest and riot. Been that way the last 60+ years I've been alive and it continues on. And unless you are a French citizen no one is asking you to have regard for anyone in this situation.

Thread was made with the assumption that we do have regard for the mob mentality. The French do this over everything, so it's neither surprising nor a reflection on how the majority views gay marriage. It's not democracy at work, since those in favor aren't out there behaving this way. It only proves how pissed the losing side is.
 
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Homosexuals lose all credibility when they refer to someone who disagrees with them as a "Bigot." Because someone believes that homosexuality and particularly homosexual marriage and adoption are improper and a negative for society, that person is a "Bigot?"

Absolute nonsense.

This sort of labeling is all part of the "Piling on" and "Shouting down" that comprises 99.9% of homosexual responses in open debate.
 
Homosexuals lose all credibility when they refer to someone who disagrees with them as a "Bigot." Because someone believes that homosexuality and particularly homosexual marriage and adoption are improper and a negative for society, that person is a "Bigot?"

Absolute nonsense.

This sort of labeling is all part of the "Piling on" and "Shouting down" that comprises 99.9% of homosexual responses in open debate.

So in other words,you are allowed to think and say what other people do is "bad", but no one is allowed to do the same to you?
Why is that?
 
Effectively heteronormative children came out of homosexual households as homosexual. You do the math.

Schumm (The guy who made the study) used a meta-analysis of existing data from 10 books on gay parenting. That's an 11th grade reading assignment. Not to mention he skewed his data so that only self-identified gay and lesbian children would be labeled as such.


We know that homosexuals parents are more likely to raise homosexual children.

See above.

Frankly, this is more than enough justification for the practice to be banned in my book.

Wow.

Why on earth would we ever need more homosexuals? What possible good could that do for society?

What harm would it do?




Mea cupla, it was a typo. I mean't to write 'data', not date.



You are denying that men are naturally evolved to be fathers and that women are naturally evolved to be mothers. You would have to "ignore" quite a few objective facts to seriously believe any argument so certifibly false.

I am not denying anything. I am pointing out that humans are an adaptable species, and as such are capable of taking on roles that are outside there biological 'norms'.




On average, a heterosexual male is going to make a much better father than a lesbian female. There might a few exceptions here and there, but that hardly changes the general rule.

It also cuts both ways.

A piss poor lesbian "father" is going to be far worse than the normal variety.

You seem so certain. Mind posting a link that proves your point?



If a given thing has never existed before and society has gotten on just fin without it, it is be very definition "unnecessary."

Just fine? What the ****? We didn't abolish slavery until the 1860's, and it took another hundred years to end segregation. Women didn't get the right to vote until less than a century ago. How the hell is that "just fin"?

I have already given you several reasons why it is problematic. A same sex couple are never going to be as efficient a parenting team as a heterosexual couple.

You have not. What you have given me is vague talking points and no real rationale for your view.

And I have posted data that disproves your second point. Do you want me to re-link it?

One example sets a trend? :roll:

He is not the only one.


It's perfectly possible for a couple of drug addicts or satanic cultists to raise a more or less normal child. Should they be allowed to adopt as well?

Are you honestly comparing drug addicts and cultists to a gay couple? seriously?



It's a perfectly valid point. The Left's major goal in all of this is to destroy the traditional family unit. It always has been.

Oh please, get off your high horse. "Traditional family' is just a buzz word social conservatives throw around to try to add emotional appeal to their arguments. It hasn't worked before, and It won't work now.
 
So in other words,you are allowed to think and say what other people do is "bad", but no one is allowed to do the same to you?
Why is that?

Huh? Labelling folks you don't know as bigots is not the same as saying their arguments against your bias are bad.
 
So in other words,you are allowed to think and say what other people do is "bad", but no one is allowed to do the same to you?
Why is that?

Post your example from this thread where someone on the other side of the issue stated the equivalent of calling you a bigot or any other name.
 
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Oh please, get off your high horse. "Traditional family' is just a buzz word social conservatives throw around to try to add emotional appeal to their arguments. It hasn't worked before, and It won't work now.
Traditional family is another way of recognizing or admitting that the institution of "family" exists, has for millennia, and some of us prefer it. If it has emotional content to you, that's your reaction to historical facts with which you don't agree. You're free to disagree, but don't put your shoe on my foot.
 
Traditional family is another way of recognizing or admitting that the institution of "family" exists, has for millennia, and some of us prefer it. If it has emotional content to you, that's your reaction to historical facts with which you don't agree. You're free to disagree, but don't put your shoe on my foot.

Family isn't even the target. The only purpose is so they can slap on an emotional appeal like 'traditional' onto something everyone can relate to. It has nothing to do with attacks on the family. It's a ****ty debate tactic.
 
hmmmm morons and bigots protesting equality, oh well, if they earn themselves a smack in the head its their own fault.

you know how the majority of us all laugh at how stupid people looked fighting against equal rights for minorities? this will be the same in the future.

A bit tough language there, isn't it? Morons and bigots? I mean besides the fact that they are using violence, which admittedly is not overly smart but does attract attention, advertises their position in the situation.

Maybe they are not fighting against equal rights for minorities. Maybe they are more fighting for preservation what they feel is best for their culture/society. They do have that right as citizens don't they, especially if they feel they are being ignored, bypassed?


But tell me, there are all sorts of minorities, they run the full gamut. Do you not as a free individual, and here in America we are allowed to peacefully assemble together [ I think all sane people are generally against violence as is being displayed in France ] with others as well , have a right to be for or against anything that you please? And do not a free people have the right to protest what they perceive as ultimately leading to the destruction of their society, a society they love?

By the way, here are a couple of minority groups, how many would you support and possibly march for?

Let's see, well there are always the child abusers... they are a minority [ I am hoping ], aren't they...I mean, you wouldn't want to be a bigot, or called one, for not supporting them would you? Shouldn't they be able to "date" anyone they want? Would you support their march? How about a minority of serial killers?

People do get to draw their own line, don't they...? ... where they want to draw the line, not what their peers can pressure them into...right?
 
Post your example from this thread where someone on the other side of the issue stated the equivalent of calling you a bigot or any other name.

So it's really all about the "wah,wah wah,teacher ,teacher,Johnny called me a name,wah,wah wah"?
How about I post all the times people tried to compare homosexuality to pedophilia and bestiality?
Seems to me being linked to that is worse than being called a "bigot".
 
Traditional family is another way of recognizing or admitting that the institution of "family" exists, has for millennia, and some of us prefer it. If it has emotional content to you, that's your reaction to historical facts with which you don't agree. You're free to disagree, but don't put your shoe on my foot.

Is anyone trying to physically prevent you from having a "traditional family"?
 
Family isn't even the target. The only purpose is so they can slap on an emotional appeal like 'traditional' onto something everyone can relate to. It has nothing to do with attacks on the family. It's a ****ty debate tactic.
Ah, but it does have everything to do with the family. I have no bone to chew with the gay community. I do see the child-rearing element as problematic, and it has nothing to do with "tradition". That, to me, is a poor description of the values attached to family. An appeal to tradition may be a debate tactic - I don't know - but I do know that the child rearing element needs to be more fully studied before I'll endorse it.
 
1.)Gay Marriage is not a Civil Right

2.)Gay Marriage is not real marriage

It never will be

1,) opinion you are welcome too
2.) opinion you are welcome too
3.) opinion you are welcome too

also feel free to keep these opinions after gay marriage is legal :Shrug: :D
 
Schumm (The guy who made the study) used a meta-analysis of existing data from 10 books on gay parenting. That's an 11th grade reading assignment. Not to mention he skewed his data so that only self-identified gay and lesbian children would be labeled as such.



Which means that he actually tried to skew the data is such a way which would give homosexual parents the benefit of the doubt.

Even with these measures, there was still a significant positive correlation between homosexual parentage and latent homosexuality later in life.

The conclusion supported by the data is clear. Homosexual parents have a tendency to raise homosexual children.

Wow.

What harm would it do?

I'm sorry, but are we in the business of trying to multiply sexual deviancy here? Is that our society's goal now? wtf.gif

I thought the goal here was to grant homosexuals "equal rights," not to provide them with the means to indoctrinate and recruit impressionable children into their lifestyle.

I must have missed the memo. :roll:

Considering the problems the West is already having with maintaining current population levels, the very last thing we need right now is to promote deviant lifestyles which effectively transform productive heterosexuals into objectively useless genetic mules.

Mea cupla, it was a typo. I mean't to write 'data', not date.

Lower income households in most US minority cultures are built around a three generation model.

These same households are the one's most likely to experience single parenthood.

I am not denying anything. I am pointing out that humans are an adaptable species, and as such are capable of taking on roles that are outside there biological 'norms'.

And being objectively terrible at them.

You seem so certain. Mind posting a link that proves your point?

You have not. What you have given me is vague talking points and no real rationale for your view.

I already demonstrated that homosexual parents have a tendency to raise "abnormal" children.

Just fine? What the ****? We didn't abolish slavery until the 1860's, and it took another hundred years to end segregation. Women didn't get the right to vote until less than a century ago. How the hell is that "just fin"?

Slavery is not a "traditional value," and neither is racial segregation.

Women having the right to vote has proven itself to be valuable to society as a whole.

And I have posted data that disproves your second point. Do you want me to re-link it?

Your sources prove absolutely nothing. Again, a mere generation's worth of data from an extremely limited sample (a significant portion of which turned out to be gay, incidentally) doesn't conclusively demonstrate anything.

Are you honestly comparing drug addicts and cultists to a gay couple? seriously?

Why shouldn't the cultists be allowed to raise children given your argument? Why wouldn't their belief system count as a valid "alternate lifestyle?"

Oh please, get off your high horse. "Traditional family' is just a buzz word social conservatives throw around to try to add emotional appeal to their arguments. It hasn't worked before, and It won't work now.

And you know what? History has proven us right time and again.

Every time traditional values and morality have been ignored in favor of modern hedonistic sensibilities, society as a whole has suffered for it. STDs, teenage pregnancies, and single parenthood have all absolutely exploded since the onset of the so called "sexual revolution," and they have all wound up costing tax payers untold billions in the process.

Hurray for Leftist social engineering! :roll:
 
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Ah, but it does have everything to do with the family. I have no bone to chew with the gay community. I do see the child-rearing element as problematic, and it has nothing to do with "tradition". That, to me, is a poor description of the values attached to family. An appeal to tradition may be a debate tactic - I don't know - but I do know that the child rearing element needs to be more fully studied before I'll endorse it.

I can link you several studies that prove that gays can raise children as effectively as straights, if you are interested.
 
1.)A bit tough language there, isn't it? Morons and bigots? I mean besides the fact that they are using violence, which admittedly is not overly smart but does attract attention, advertises their position in the situation.

2.)Maybe they are not fighting against equal rights for minorities. Maybe they are more fighting for preservation what they feel is best for their culture/society. They do have that right as citizens don't they, especially if they feel they are being ignored, bypassed?


3.)But tell me, there are all sorts of minorities, they run the full gamut. Do you not as a free individual, and here in America we are allowed to peacefully assemble together [ I think all sane people are generally against violence as is being displayed in France ] with others as well , have a right to be for or against anything that you please?

4.)And do not a free people have the right to protest what they perceive as ultimately leading to the destruction of their society, a society they love?

5.)By the way, here are a couple of minority groups, how many would you support and possibly march for?

Let's see, well there are always the child abusers... they are a minority [ I am hoping ], aren't they...I mean, you wouldn't want to be a bigot, or called one, for not supporting them would you? Shouldn't they be able to "date" anyone they want? Would you support their march?
6.)How about a minority of serial killers?

7.)People do get to draw their own line, don't they...? ... where they want to draw the line, not what their peers can pressure them into...right?

1.) no, SOME of tham are using violence to fight against equality, thats bigotry and moronic. Please note than and normal protesting would be fine with me whether i agreed or not but i would still judge them as thats my right too, :)
2.) preservation of what they believe is not needed, they are still free to not participate in gay marriage. What they believe in is not being changed or forced on them.
as for the rest yes they have that right, just as i have the right to judge them.
People had the right to fight against equal rights for minorities and woman too. They were also bigots if they were trying to stop them then too. Also ain if they did it peaceful that would be fine. sp,e are not.

3.) i agree and you realize that you just called the violent protester insane right? but somehow bigots and moron you deem harsh?

4.) yes they do, and if they are against equal rights or against a race, gender or sexuality AND they want to stop others from having those rights, not just have feeling its wrong that doesnt change the fact they are bigots

5.) child abuser are CRIMINALS and RAPIST and they have VICTIUMS and they INFRINGE on RIGHTS of others. Example fails
6.) see above

7.) these examples show how severely uneducated you are on the issues and understanding of rights, freedoms and liberties.

comparing equal rights to rapist and killers is nonsensical and very telling about you ability to be honest and objective and it lets us know where your failed presentations of reality are.

paris aside here in america i would defend ones freedom to PREACH, TEACH, BELIEVE, FEEL, THINK, SAY etc that gay is wrong, gross a sin whatever. But as soon as they try to STOP their fellow americans from having equal rights its hypocritical, bigoted and moronic. :shrug:

you are free to disagree though ;)
 
One would surely hope so, one would hope ANY OPINION, would hate to give up that right just so somebody could have the illusion of equality.

again more opinion :shrug:
and i would defend you right to have it
 
That's a good question and the answer has already been provided. What happened to civil union legislation, both state and federal, is an intense reaction to the push for homosexual marriage and nothing else will satisfy. You managed to rile up the opposition and pissed off many of those who would go for equal rights civil unions (calling them bigot and homophobes definitely doesn't help your cause).

Are you kidding? That is horribly historically inaccurate which is pretty bad given that most of those bans occurred only a decade ago. A little history lesson on this issue is apparently needed.

1972: Baker v. Nelson the Supreme Court dismissed a case seeking SSM in Minnesota setting the first court precedent on the issue.
1996: Defense of Marriage Act signed by President Bill Clinton.
2002: The first Federal Marriage Amendment was proposed by a Democratic Representative.
2003: Lawrence v. Texas the Supreme Court strikes down sodomy laws.
2003: Massachusetts Supreme Court ruled the right to marry should be extended to same sex couples.
2004: Same sex marriage becomes legal in Massachusetts, the first state to legalize it.
2004: President George W. Bush makes same sex marriage a major part of his election campaign and after winning the GOP pushes ballot questions to ban same sex marriage and civil unions in over 25 states over the nest few years.

Basically, as a reaction to the sodomy laws being overturned, an inability to pass a federal marriage amendment, and the MA Supreme Court ruling in favor of SSM, your side pushed bans on civil unions and same sex marriage in each state across the country. I didn't ask for marriage, the overreaction was entirely on your side and now that SSM is gaining ground, your side is frantically accusing us of being uncompromising. If from the BEGINNING your side had made any push to compromise with civil unions, then the current debate likely would not be occurring at all, but your side decided to use the government to FORCE a particular social view of the majority at that time and as a result your side became the one that became seen as limiting freedom. Now even the most stout conservatives have trouble reconciling the bedrock principle of individual freedom with their reactionary and completely UNCOMPRISING push to deny same sex couples any legal recognition or rights.

If you want to be a historical revisionist and pretend that isn't the case in some clearly prejudiced, baseless, and ignorant attempt to blame the gay rights movement for the current state of affairs, then feel free. That is your own animosity, not HISTORICAL FACT.
 
Which means that he actually tried to skew the data is such a way which would give homosexual parents the benefit of the doubt.

His only confirmation was what the kids said. Are you telling me kids don't often think they are something they are not?

Even with these measures, there was still a significant positive correlation between homosexual parentage and latent homosexuality later in life.

In one study.

The conclusion supported by the data is clear. Homosexual parents have a tendency to raise homosexual children.

In one study, might I add, that was conducted in a manner equivalent to an 11th grade Reading report. Pardon me for not jumping on that train.



I'm sorry, but are we in the business of trying to multiply sexual deviancy here? Is that our society's goal now? View attachment 67146655

No.

I thought the goal here was to grant homosexuals "equal rights," not to provide them with the means to indoctrinate and recruit impressionable children into their lifestyle.

That is correct. Your point is...

I must have missed the memo. :roll:

You missed a lot more than the memo.

Considering the problems the West is already having with maintaining current population levels, the very last thing we need right now is to promote deviant lifestyles which effectively transform productive heterosexuals into objectively useless genetic mules.

Homosexuality is not a deviant lifestyle.


Lower income households in most US minority cultures are built around a three generation model.

These same households are the one's most likely to experience single parenthood.

Can you re-iterate your original point, I want to make sure I'm getting the full picture.



And being objectively terrible at them.

My, look at all the data your presented! Oh, wait...

Prove to me they are terrible at them. Don't give this bull**** "Oh that's just how it is!" Give me a real ****ing paper/study/research thing.



I already demonstrated that homosexual parents have a tendency to raise "abnormal" children.



Slavery is not a "traditional value," and neither is racial segregation.

Oh, it's not? Why did we as a species practice it for thousands of years then? I thought it was 'tradition.'

Women having the right to vote has proven itself to be valuable to society as a whole.

Okay.



Your sources prove absolutely nothing.

Only to those who are unwilling to learn.

Again, a mere generation's worth of data from an extremely limited sample (a significant portion of which turned out to be gay, incidentally) doesn't conclusively demonstrate anything.

A mere generation is all the was required, give that is was about the children and how they turned out.


Why shouldn't the cultists be allowed to raise children given your argument?

I never said cultists should not be able to raise children.

Why wouldn't their belief system count as a valid "alternate lifestyle?"

Homosexuality is not an alternate lifestyle.


And you know what else? History has proven us right time and again. Every time traditional values and morality have been ignored in favor of modern hedonistic sensibilities, society as a whole has suffered for it. STDs, teenage pregnancies, and single parenthood have all absolutely exploded since the onset of the so called "sexual revolution," and they have all wound up costing tax payers untold billions in the process.

Once case doesn't make a generalization true.

Hurray for Leftist social engineering! :roll:

Hurray for you failing to prove me wrong!
 
the civil union argument/domestic partnership is always a failed argument for multiple reasons.

1.) separate but equal is still discrimination
2.) both civil unions and domestic partnerships are not equal to marriage legally and rights wise

so anybody using this failed argument simply inst educated on the issues at hand.

First, as Gathomas has rightly pointed out, the Civil Rights movement for African American rights [ which, by extension, was for all American's rights ] is not the same, nor equal, as the Gay Marriage movement. We currently have equal rights in the USA... it is not separate but equal, it is just already equal.

That being said, Civil Unions/domestic partnerships are not the same, nor meant to be equal, to marriage. They are different, just like man and woman are different from man and man and woman and woman. Marriage has in tradition been a protection of women and the children created by the union of a man and a woman. Those same protections are unnecessary as man and man and woman and woman unions do not create/procreate children.

I would agree also with Gathomas in that we, at our peril, grant special privileges to special groups, as he indicated being between 2-4% of any nation or group planet wise. To change all of society to suit one small group is opening up a Pandora's ominous box, the negative externalities alone from which we might never recover.

Let the debate determine who is educated on the topic and who is not... I think that is a label that should be left up to the audience to make up its own mind about, is it not?
 
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