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Thread: Paris Riots After Gay Marriage Vote

  1. #191
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    Re: Paris Riots After Gay Marriage Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    I agree to disagree.

    Its fine to disagree, doesn't do much if you cannot explain your position however. Let me make is simpler for you, a gay man has the same rights and restrictions as I, a hetero, have. EQUAL .



    Tell that to infertile heterosexual couples, heterosexual couples who choose not to have kids, and heterosexual couples too elderly to have kids. They can all marry.

    Policies are not made for the exceptions, they are made for the general rule... who is to say that advances in science cannot allow fertility? That those who choose not to have children suddenly choose to have some. Giving the right to the elderly female and male will not erase the lines as presently drawn and open up the dread of negative unintended, some of which are foreseeable, consequences.



    How has same sex marriage changed anyone's marriage?

    We, as you know, haven't really had the time to study it yet. But we do know that once you erase the line of tradition, the walls holding back the floods of chaos will soon coming crashing in. Who will we then say no to? Anything and everything will be allowed...what would be the legal basis of denying anybody the right to marriage to anybody, or in some cases, or anything? That clearly would be chaos, think about that critically. Society cannot withstand such assaults for very long.




    So far the basis of your argument is an appeal to tradition fallacy and your personal opinion. Not exactly an "educated" means of debate. I would love to take you on.

    Tradition is a proven entity, so comes up ACES... what you got in your deck of fallacies that might beat mine? Experimentation is better than a proven winner? Not so good...so what ya got?
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  2. #192
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    Re: Paris Riots After Gay Marriage Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Thank you, as I would defend yours, because without those conditions, neither of us can speak our minds.

    Right now, though, I would rather you show me the error of my ways ...if you can.
    error in your ways? hmmmm

    im not recalling enough about our conversation to remember any FACTUAL "errors", i cant call your OPINIONS errors unless of course they are factually wrong.
    Earlier there were somethign things you simple got wrong and i already pointed those out.

    you would have to tell me more about yourself, your views and opinions. There may not be any factual ERRORS in your ways, we may just not agree.

    your comment came after i responded to somebody saying "gay marriage" will never be "Real marriage" and i explained to them that statment is nothign more than a opinion as it was stated,

    he could change that statement and make it a fact
    i ould change the statement and make it factually not true

    but as worded it was just an opinion

    we can start there, how do you feel about his statement.
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  3. #193
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    Re: Paris Riots After Gay Marriage Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    1.) yes i saw his strawman argument that failed

    no the gay struggle is not EQUAL to "slavery", but the struggle for equal rights is because its about discrimination and equal rights and thats what people make the comparison too.
    Ive never seen anybody say being gay is like being a slaved and whipped and made to do work and having zero rights. His comparison was nonsensical and a straw man ive never seen anybody make.

    2.) yes they are not equal that is a fact
    3.) this is nothing more than your opinion
    it also fails and is illogical based on these facts

    A.)procreation isnt need, required or considered for marriage to be granted
    B.) gays can certainly creat a family through adoption or donors

    4.) feel free ot agree iwht him but that argument was nonsensical too.

    Native Americans, Hawaiians and many specific religions are that small and smaller, lets not grant them equal rights either LOL

    5.) no the debate nor the audience doesnt matter if facts are being discussed. LOL

    education on a topic is determined by facts and knowledge and some of those facts and knowledge in that post you already agreed with

    what i said in that post is factual per its content.
    1. People have a right to discriminate, discrimination has become a dirty word but we do it all the time when we pick one brand of sneakers over another, one car over another...well, you get the point. Being discriminating in who you hang out with, if you choose positively, is pretty much a good thing. So lets no go overboard with this discrimination word. That might be considered discrimination... right?

    Don't know where your 2 came from out of the blue...but they are equal, a homosexual man has the exact same rights as I, a hetro, do under the constitution. Don't just say I am wrong, prove me wrong...that is how debate is done, right?

    3. Marriage is and has been mainly for those protections of women and children through the union of the man and woman...

    A. Procreation in most instances is not needed before the fact, that would be silly, it is the legal protections for what come after that we are talking about.
    B. Yeah, I do not agree with that either, not good for society. So we are able to limit it to who can get "donors" that is not illegal and they have that perfect right, but no adoptions. Study same sex couple's kids for a hundred years or so, see how those turn out and, if not a problem, then unleash it on society as a whole.

    4. All those you just mentioned, Native Americans, etc... have at least the same rights as I do already... do not need special rights as would be needed for same sex marriage. So we don't even have a disagreement here as far as I can tell.

    5. EMBARRASSING FAIL. But then, you knew that when you typed it. But we will let the unbiased audience decide.

  4. #194
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    Re: Paris Riots After Gay Marriage Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Verthaine View Post
    Just because you say so,doesn't make it so.
    Just because you say Gay Marriage is real marriage, doesn't make it so.

    Marriage is not a Civil Right. It is an institution with specific social and economic purposes. Gay Marriage is pointless and serves no purpose that benefits society as a whole. Gay Marriage is not real marriage.

    Maybe you got married to serve some "social or economic purpose" to humanity,but I got married to my wife because that was the woman I wanted to spend the rest of my life with.
    Me and Selena just doesn't give a crap what the rest of humanity thinks about our marriage.We don't need your approval,Bronson.We have each other,and that's all that matters to us.
    Again heterosexuals don't marry with the specific purpose of serving humanity, but their unions usually do by their very nature. They create more taxpayers through their unions. Gay couples cannot procreate. Humanity relies on heterosexual unions to exist. It's just biological fact. Has nothing to do with approval.

    I don't know what goes on in your marriage,but in my marriage to Selena,we've endured good times,we endured bad times,we nursed each other through sickness, we raised three children (from my first marriage,Selena can't have children due to cancer)we argue with one another,we've had epic fights, doors have been slammed,couches slept on,we have passionate make up sex,we've laughed with each other,shed tears for one another,we've been faithful to one another,sometimes we are angry with one another,but at all time we love each other.
    Most of all,through thick and thin, we have each others back.
    That is what a REAL MARRIAGE is all about.
    Not some piece of paper or a word in a dictionary.
    Are you saying that Gay people are incapable of going through the things I described above?
    Gay marriage is not real marriage.

    It never will be

    Are you aware of the many times I have stated on this forum that I own a catering and banquet hall business,and gay weddings put thousands and thousands of dollars into my own pocket.
    Money that is thus taxed by our government.
    I don't know who you are or what you've stated and I could care less. Gay Marriage serves no social or economic purpose. They don't create more taxpayers. Every citizen acts as a consumer, but that has nothing to do with the lifetime of productivity every human being born into this world is capable of realizing. Your arguments are purely emotional. Not logical.

  5. #195
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    Re: Paris Riots After Gay Marriage Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    1,) opinion you are welcome too
    2.) opinion you are welcome too
    3.) opinion you are welcome too

    also feel free to keep these opinions after gay marriage is legal :Shrug:
    Dodge noted

    Laws can always be repealed/overturned. Human Laws don't change Natural Law.

  6. #196
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    Re: Paris Riots After Gay Marriage Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Verthaine View Post
    So MPG,how the eff do you know what's on the minds of your fellow Americans,hmmm?
    NEWS FLASH: Sometimes people express opinions and tell you what they're thinking.
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

  7. #197
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    Re: Paris Riots After Gay Marriage Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Jredbaron96 View Post
    No, I'm not stupid enough to use logical fallacies for my arguments.

    What is known and what is the unknown?



    The divorce rate for straight couples is 50%. you don't have a lot to show for.



    Nothing is being 'risked for'.



    Not even close.
    Yes, you are expecting us, society to go for the unknown over the known, that is just plain fallacy...the unknown is better than known fallacy...make you happy with a label on it now?

    What is known is how societies have developed in a stable manner over about 10,000 years of recorded history. What do we have for the unknown of same sex marriage? For a guy as seemingly sharp as you, I would have thought you would have figured that out.

    What is the divorce rate for same sex marriages? Oh yeah, we don't have a lot of data on that. Why is that? Hasn't been around long enough? So lets wait and see how that data turns out before we turn society upside down so that 2-4% can be happy, maybe, in the right here and now... yes, lets just gamble our posterity on just such a roulette wheel. Vegas anyone?

    The divorce rate on hetero marriage is skewed, by the way, so don't hang your hat on it. Seems the ones who get divorced once have a tendency to do it again...and again...and sometimes again...and..
    Would certainly entertain arguments in favor of being stricter with regards to divorce though.

    Nothing being risked? Wow, you are gonna need to put some depth on that to get it closer to being profound aren't you? Once you open up marriage, you erase the lines, all Hades will soon break out. Who else do you think might want a non tradional type marriage after that... and on what legal basis would you stop anybody/anything from getting married? That would then be discrimination, because they gave these special rights do same sex couples, how are you going to legally deny someone else. We all currently have equal protections under the law, the Constitution... and with it exactly equal right now, we simply cannot improve on that.

    You got nothing much except the "I wanna do it!! Give it to me give it to me" and the "if it feels good in the moment, lets just do it" arguments. Flat and unpersuasive.

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    Re: Paris Riots After Gay Marriage Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    1. People have a right to discriminate, discrimination has become a dirty word but we do it all the time when we pick one brand of sneakers over another, one car over another...well, you get the point. Being discriminating in who you hang out with, if you choose positively, is pretty much a good thing. So lets no go overboard with this discrimination word. That might be considered discrimination... right?

    Don't know where your 2 came from out of the blue...but they are equal, a homosexual man has the exact same rights as I, a hetro, do under the constitution. Don't just say I am wrong, prove me wrong...that is how debate is done, right?

    3. Marriage is and has been mainly for those protections of women and children through the union of the man and woman...

    A. Procreation in most instances is not needed before the fact, that would be silly, it is the legal protections for what come after that we are talking about.
    B. Yeah, I do not agree with that either, not good for society. So we are able to limit it to who can get "donors" that is not illegal and they have that perfect right, but no adoptions. Study same sex couple's kids for a hundred years or so, see how those turn out and, if not a problem, then unleash it on society as a whole.

    4. All those you just mentioned, Native Americans, etc... have at least the same rights as I do already... do not need special rights as would be needed for same sex marriage. So we don't even have a disagreement here as far as I can tell.

    5. EMBARRASSING FAIL. But then, you knew that when you typed it. But we will let the unbiased audience decide.
    1.) not when it violate rights, liberties and freedoms sorry
    2.) you are wrong LMAO this is dishonesty and like i said, state supreme court justices disagree. thats how its done
    3.) opinion and my two points that make it fail still stand 100%
    A.) transaltion: its not required or need, thanks
    B.) more of your opinion that doesnt change the point showing how your opinion fails, Please stay on topic, Gays can factually adopt right now in the us. You opinion on that is meaningless
    4.) weird, did i say they didnt, i was just pointing out how dumb it is to try and say rights shouldnt be granted on small population % which you were claiming. Its funny how you try to backpedal.
    Also gay marriage isnt a "special rights" its equal rights as some state supreme courts have already stated
    5.) im sure you think that but facts are on my side and not on yours LMAO you are very entertaining and funny, i like posters like you. I stated fact and you said :nu-huh"
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    Re: Paris Riots After Gay Marriage Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    Dodge noted

    Laws can always be repealed/overturned. Human Laws don't change Natural Law.
    what dodge you didn't ask me anything?????? LMAO

    way to make stuff up
    what natural laws? you mean your OPINION of what natural laws are LOL

    thanks for proving my point
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  10. #200
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    Re: Paris Riots After Gay Marriage Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Religion causes all sorts of insane behaviors.
    As does homosexuality.
    Last edited by Ray410; 04-27-13 at 09:15 PM.

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