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Thread: Paris Riots After Gay Marriage Vote

  1. #171
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    Re: Paris Riots After Gay Marriage Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    1.)A bit tough language there, isn't it? Morons and bigots? I mean besides the fact that they are using violence, which admittedly is not overly smart but does attract attention, advertises their position in the situation.

    2.)Maybe they are not fighting against equal rights for minorities. Maybe they are more fighting for preservation what they feel is best for their culture/society. They do have that right as citizens don't they, especially if they feel they are being ignored, bypassed?


    3.)But tell me, there are all sorts of minorities, they run the full gamut. Do you not as a free individual, and here in America we are allowed to peacefully assemble together [ I think all sane people are generally against violence as is being displayed in France ] with others as well , have a right to be for or against anything that you please?

    4.)And do not a free people have the right to protest what they perceive as ultimately leading to the destruction of their society, a society they love?

    5.)By the way, here are a couple of minority groups, how many would you support and possibly march for?

    Let's see, well there are always the child abusers... they are a minority [ I am hoping ], aren't they...I mean, you wouldn't want to be a bigot, or called one, for not supporting them would you? Shouldn't they be able to "date" anyone they want? Would you support their march?
    6.)How about a minority of serial killers?

    7.)People do get to draw their own line, don't they...? ... where they want to draw the line, not what their peers can pressure them into...right?
    1.) no, SOME of tham are using violence to fight against equality, thats bigotry and moronic. Please note than and normal protesting would be fine with me whether i agreed or not but i would still judge them as thats my right too,
    2.) preservation of what they believe is not needed, they are still free to not participate in gay marriage. What they believe in is not being changed or forced on them.
    as for the rest yes they have that right, just as i have the right to judge them.
    People had the right to fight against equal rights for minorities and woman too. They were also bigots if they were trying to stop them then too. Also ain if they did it peaceful that would be fine. sp,e are not.

    3.) i agree and you realize that you just called the violent protester insane right? but somehow bigots and moron you deem harsh?

    4.) yes they do, and if they are against equal rights or against a race, gender or sexuality AND they want to stop others from having those rights, not just have feeling its wrong that doesnt change the fact they are bigots

    5.) child abuser are CRIMINALS and RAPIST and they have VICTIUMS and they INFRINGE on RIGHTS of others. Example fails
    6.) see above

    7.) these examples show how severely uneducated you are on the issues and understanding of rights, freedoms and liberties.

    comparing equal rights to rapist and killers is nonsensical and very telling about you ability to be honest and objective and it lets us know where your failed presentations of reality are.

    paris aside here in america i would defend ones freedom to PREACH, TEACH, BELIEVE, FEEL, THINK, SAY etc that gay is wrong, gross a sin whatever. But as soon as they try to STOP their fellow americans from having equal rights its hypocritical, bigoted and moronic.

    you are free to disagree though
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  2. #172
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    Re: Paris Riots After Gay Marriage Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    One would surely hope so, one would hope ANY OPINION, would hate to give up that right just so somebody could have the illusion of equality.
    again more opinion
    and i would defend you right to have it
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  3. #173
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    Re: Paris Riots After Gay Marriage Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    That's a good question and the answer has already been provided. What happened to civil union legislation, both state and federal, is an intense reaction to the push for homosexual marriage and nothing else will satisfy. You managed to rile up the opposition and pissed off many of those who would go for equal rights civil unions (calling them bigot and homophobes definitely doesn't help your cause).
    Are you kidding? That is horribly historically inaccurate which is pretty bad given that most of those bans occurred only a decade ago. A little history lesson on this issue is apparently needed.

    1972: Baker v. Nelson the Supreme Court dismissed a case seeking SSM in Minnesota setting the first court precedent on the issue.
    1996: Defense of Marriage Act signed by President Bill Clinton.
    2002: The first Federal Marriage Amendment was proposed by a Democratic Representative.
    2003: Lawrence v. Texas the Supreme Court strikes down sodomy laws.
    2003: Massachusetts Supreme Court ruled the right to marry should be extended to same sex couples.
    2004: Same sex marriage becomes legal in Massachusetts, the first state to legalize it.
    2004: President George W. Bush makes same sex marriage a major part of his election campaign and after winning the GOP pushes ballot questions to ban same sex marriage and civil unions in over 25 states over the nest few years.

    Basically, as a reaction to the sodomy laws being overturned, an inability to pass a federal marriage amendment, and the MA Supreme Court ruling in favor of SSM, your side pushed bans on civil unions and same sex marriage in each state across the country. I didn't ask for marriage, the overreaction was entirely on your side and now that SSM is gaining ground, your side is frantically accusing us of being uncompromising. If from the BEGINNING your side had made any push to compromise with civil unions, then the current debate likely would not be occurring at all, but your side decided to use the government to FORCE a particular social view of the majority at that time and as a result your side became the one that became seen as limiting freedom. Now even the most stout conservatives have trouble reconciling the bedrock principle of individual freedom with their reactionary and completely UNCOMPRISING push to deny same sex couples any legal recognition or rights.

    If you want to be a historical revisionist and pretend that isn't the case in some clearly prejudiced, baseless, and ignorant attempt to blame the gay rights movement for the current state of affairs, then feel free. That is your own animosity, not HISTORICAL FACT.
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  4. #174
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    Re: Paris Riots After Gay Marriage Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Which means that he actually tried to skew the data is such a way which would give homosexual parents the benefit of the doubt.
    His only confirmation was what the kids said. Are you telling me kids don't often think they are something they are not?

    Even with these measures, there was still a significant positive correlation between homosexual parentage and latent homosexuality later in life.
    In one study.

    The conclusion supported by the data is clear. Homosexual parents have a tendency to raise homosexual children.
    In one study, might I add, that was conducted in a manner equivalent to an 11th grade Reading report. Pardon me for not jumping on that train.



    I'm sorry, but are we in the business of trying to multiply sexual deviancy here? Is that our society's goal now? Attachment 67146655
    No.

    I thought the goal here was to grant homosexuals "equal rights," not to provide them with the means to indoctrinate and recruit impressionable children into their lifestyle.
    That is correct. Your point is...

    I must have missed the memo.
    You missed a lot more than the memo.

    Considering the problems the West is already having with maintaining current population levels, the very last thing we need right now is to promote deviant lifestyles which effectively transform productive heterosexuals into objectively useless genetic mules.
    Homosexuality is not a deviant lifestyle.


    Lower income households in most US minority cultures are built around a three generation model.

    These same households are the one's most likely to experience single parenthood.
    Can you re-iterate your original point, I want to make sure I'm getting the full picture.



    And being objectively terrible at them.
    My, look at all the data your presented! Oh, wait...

    Prove to me they are terrible at them. Don't give this bull**** "Oh that's just how it is!" Give me a real ****ing paper/study/research thing.



    I already demonstrated that homosexual parents have a tendency to raise "abnormal" children.


    Slavery is not a "traditional value," and neither is racial segregation.
    Oh, it's not? Why did we as a species practice it for thousands of years then? I thought it was 'tradition.'

    Women having the right to vote has proven itself to be valuable to society as a whole.
    Okay.



    Your sources prove absolutely nothing.
    Only to those who are unwilling to learn.

    Again, a mere generation's worth of data from an extremely limited sample (a significant portion of which turned out to be gay, incidentally) doesn't conclusively demonstrate anything.
    A mere generation is all the was required, give that is was about the children and how they turned out.


    Why shouldn't the cultists be allowed to raise children given your argument?
    I never said cultists should not be able to raise children.

    Why wouldn't their belief system count as a valid "alternate lifestyle?"
    Homosexuality is not an alternate lifestyle.


    And you know what else? History has proven us right time and again. Every time traditional values and morality have been ignored in favor of modern hedonistic sensibilities, society as a whole has suffered for it. STDs, teenage pregnancies, and single parenthood have all absolutely exploded since the onset of the so called "sexual revolution," and they have all wound up costing tax payers untold billions in the process.
    Once case doesn't make a generalization true.

    Hurray for Leftist social engineering!
    Hurray for you failing to prove me wrong!
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  5. #175
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    Re: Paris Riots After Gay Marriage Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    the civil union argument/domestic partnership is always a failed argument for multiple reasons.

    1.) separate but equal is still discrimination
    2.) both civil unions and domestic partnerships are not equal to marriage legally and rights wise

    so anybody using this failed argument simply inst educated on the issues at hand.
    First, as Gathomas has rightly pointed out, the Civil Rights movement for African American rights [ which, by extension, was for all American's rights ] is not the same, nor equal, as the Gay Marriage movement. We currently have equal rights in the USA... it is not separate but equal, it is just already equal.

    That being said, Civil Unions/domestic partnerships are not the same, nor meant to be equal, to marriage. They are different, just like man and woman are different from man and man and woman and woman. Marriage has in tradition been a protection of women and the children created by the union of a man and a woman. Those same protections are unnecessary as man and man and woman and woman unions do not create/procreate children.

    I would agree also with Gathomas in that we, at our peril, grant special privileges to special groups, as he indicated being between 2-4% of any nation or group planet wise. To change all of society to suit one small group is opening up a Pandora's ominous box, the negative externalities alone from which we might never recover.

    Let the debate determine who is educated on the topic and who is not... I think that is a label that should be left up to the audience to make up its own mind about, is it not?

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    Re: Paris Riots After Gay Marriage Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    The conclusion supported by the data is clear. Homosexual parents have a tendency to raise homosexual children.
    The data was beyond self selected. Some of the authors of the books he used INTENTIONALLY chose to use gay parents of gay kids in order to round off their books and include useful information. I think it is pretty easy to make it look like gay parents raise gay kids when you sample books where authors intentionally chose to find and include gay parents of gay kids. What I struggle to understand is why you didn't exercise the basic critical thinking skills to question the validity of his methods before citing him. It seems to me you liked his conclusion because it supported your political agenda and you don't actually care whether it was a legitimate study.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

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    Re: Paris Riots After Gay Marriage Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Maenad View Post
    Gay marriage anywhere is not about luv, sweetie, it's about money. It's about government benefits, company benefits, etc. The bigger their cut of the pie the smaller anyone's who isn't gay.....
    Just like the wealthy who are sucking up all the money and leaving none for the rest of us....Right?

    It is all about religious zealotry. Wanna bet the protestors are devote Catholics? Religion causes all sorts of insane behaviors.

  8. #178
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    Re: Paris Riots After Gay Marriage Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    First, as Gathomas has rightly pointed out, the Civil Rights movement for African American rights [ which, by extension, was for all American's rights ] is not the same, nor equal, as the Gay Marriage movement. We currently have equal rights in the USA... it is not separate but equal, it is just already equal.
    I agree to disagree.

    That being said, Civil Unions/domestic partnerships are not the same, nor meant to be equal, to marriage. They are different, just like man and woman are different from man and man and woman and woman. Marriage has in tradition been a protection of women and the children created by the union of a man and a woman. Those same protections are unnecessary as man and man and woman and woman unions do not create/procreate children.
    Tell that to infertile heterosexual couples, heterosexual couples who choose not to have kids, and heterosexual couples too elderly to have kids. They can all marry.

    I would agree also with Gathomas in that we, at our peril, grant special privileges to special groups, as he indicated being between 2-4% of any nation or group planet wise. To change all of society to suit one small group is opening up a Pandora's ominous box, the negative externalities alone from which we might never recover.
    How has same sex marriage changed anyone's marriage?

    Let the debate determine who is educated on the topic and who is not... I think that is a label that should be left up to the audience to make up its own mind about, is it not?
    So far the basis of your argument is an appeal to tradition fallacy and your personal opinion. Not exactly an "educated" means of debate. I would love to take you on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

  9. #179
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    Re: Paris Riots After Gay Marriage Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    1.)First, as Gathomas has rightly pointed out, the Civil Rights movement for African American rights [ which, by extension, was for all American's rights ] is not the same, nor equal, as the Gay Marriage movement. We currently have equal rights in the USA... it is not separate but equal, it is just already equal.

    That being said, Civil Unions/domestic partnerships are not the same

    3.), nor meant to be equal, to marriage. They are different, just like man and woman are different from man and man and woman and woman. Marriage has in tradition been a protection of women and the children created by the union of a man and a woman. Those same protections are unnecessary as man and man and woman and woman unions do not create/procreate children.

    I would agree also with Gathomas in that we, at our peril, grant special privileges to special groups, as he indicated being between 2-4% of any nation or group planet wise. To change all of society to suit one small group is opening up a Pandora's ominous box, the negative externalities alone from which we might never recover.

    Let the debate determine who is educated on the topic and who is not... I think that is a label that should be left up to the audience to make up its own mind about, is it not?
    1.) yes i saw his strawman argument that failed

    no the gay struggle is not EQUAL to "slavery", but the struggle for equal rights is because its about discrimination and equal rights and thats what people make the comparison too.
    Ive never seen anybody say being gay is like being a slaved and whipped and made to do work and having zero rights. His comparison was nonsensical and a straw man ive never seen anybody make.

    2.) yes they are not equal that is a fact
    3.) this is nothing more than your opinion
    it also fails and is illogical based on these facts

    A.)procreation isnt need, required or considered for marriage to be granted
    B.) gays can certainly creat a family through adoption or donors

    4.) feel free ot agree iwht him but that argument was nonsensical too.

    Native Americans, Hawaiians and many specific religions are that small and smaller, lets not grant them equal rights either LOL

    5.) no the debate nor the audience doesnt matter if facts are being discussed. LOL

    education on a topic is determined by facts and knowledge and some of those facts and knowledge in that post you already agreed with

    what i said in that post is factual per its content.
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    Re: Paris Riots After Gay Marriage Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Jredbaron96 View Post
    His only confirmation was what the kids said. Are you telling me kids don't often think they are something they are not?
    How old were most of the children in question?

    In one study.
    Two studies. The study I mentioned was fact-checking what an earlier study had claimed.

    In one study, might I add, that was conducted in a manner equivalent to an 11th grade Reading report. Pardon me for not jumping on that train.
    Irrelevant. It is common for academic studies to utilize pre-existing data.

    No.

    That is correct. Your point is...
    If a demonstratable connection between being raised in a homosexual household and turning to homosexuality later in life can be shown, then homosexual adoption is essentially a form of recruitment into the homosexual lifestyle.

    Homosexuality is not a deviant lifestyle.
    It is an abnormal state of affairs practiced by 2-4% of any given nation's population at most. That is, by definition, " deviant."

    Your P.C. semantics can go fly a kite.

    Can you re-iterate your original point, I want to make sure I'm getting the full picture.
    Young men raised in single mother households often exhibit behavioral problems later in life due to the lack of a father figure.

    You claimed that this would not be the case in a same-sex lesbian household because one of the mothers there would take on a "fatherly" role.

    A large number of single mothers also live with their own mothers, essentially rendering the environment a de facto same sex two parent household. These behavioral problems still manifest themselves.

    This would not seem to support the conclusion that the presence of two women can make up for the absence of a man in the process of childrearing.

    My, look at all the data your presented! Oh, wait...

    Prove to me they are terrible at them. Don't give this bull**** "Oh that's just how it is!" Give me a real ****ing paper/study/research thing.
    Provide specific data which shows that a lesbian can effectively serve as a father figure, or that a gay man can serve in a motherly role with the same efficiency as someone of the opposite sex.

    "A handful of children have been raised by gay couples and turned out to be sort of 'okay' (with a strong chance of turning to homosexuality themselves)." Isn't really cutting it.

    Oh, it's not? Why did we as a species practice it for thousands of years then? I thought it was 'tradition.'
    American plantation slavery was a relatively new phenomena. It dated back no further than the 16th century.

    It was also an economic institution, not a "value."

    Segregation dated back no further than the mid 19th Century.

    Homosexuality is not an alternate lifestyle.
    Yes, it is.

    Once case doesn't make a generalization true.
    More like every major case of the last half century. Nice try though.

    Liberal social values have proven themselves to be unproductive and even harmful to society in general on more occasions than I care to count.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 04-27-13 at 06:48 PM.

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