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Thread: Paris Riots After Gay Marriage Vote

  1. #131
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    Re: Paris Riots After Gay Marriage Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    So why not civil unions? It's more fun watching the crying about it, and see: 'colored' drinking fountains. France itself is a good example, since they had civil unions, but adoption rights are a huge part of why this was necessary.
    Adoption is not an equal rights issue. There is very real concern over the question of whether homosexual households provide an emotionally and developmentally healthy environment for growing children.

    There have been a wide variety of studies in recent years suggesting that children who are raised without role models of both genders tend to be predisposed to a wide variety of social and behavioral problems later in life.

    Witherspoon Institute - Men Don't Mother

    You cannot toss the last several million years of human evolution out the window just because it doesn't agree with your ideological views.

    Frankly, how many gay couples actually want to adopt children anyway? I'd assume that they are something of a minority. In a group that only makes up 2-4% of any given population in the first place, that's saying quite a bit.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 04-27-13 at 12:02 PM.

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    Re: Paris Riots After Gay Marriage Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post

    There have been a wide variety of studies in recent years suggesting that children who are raised without role models of both genders tend to be predisposed to a wide variety of social and behavioral problems later in life.

    The majority of studies have found no real difference between children raised by gay couples than those raised by straight couples.


    http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastor...7/amicus29.pdf

    http://www.cpa.ca/cpasite/userfiles/...%20%281%29.pdf

    http://www.psychology.org.au/Assets/...Lit-Review.pdf

    Oh please. The Witherspoon Institute is a conservative think tank that's been pointed out before for using flawed studies.

    You cannot toss the last several million years of human evolution out the window just because it doesn't agree with your ideological views.
    We're not.

    Frankly, how many gay couples actually want to adopt children anyway? I'd assume that they are something of a minority.
    I think Redress said it was 1/3 of Lesbian couples and 1/4 of gay couples
    "Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough."
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    Re: Paris Riots After Gay Marriage Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Adoption is not an equal rights issue. There is very real concern over the question of whether homosexual households provide an emotionally and developmentally healthy environment for growing children.

    There have been a wide variety of studies in recent years suggesting that children who are raised without role models of both genders tend to be predisposed to a wide variety of social and behavioral problems later in life.

    Witherspoon Institute - Men Don't Mother

    You cannot toss the last several million years of human evolution out the window just because it doesn't agree with your ideological views.

    Frankly, how many gay couples actually want to adopt children anyway? I'd assume that they are something of a minority. In a group that only makes up 2-4% of any given population in the first place, that's saying quite a bit.
    While what you say is true there is also a great deal of indifference towards children that there has been in previous generations. Of course aborting them is the most obvious, linking them to women's rights, a career choice, a 'punishment', etc. but we also don't care much about their sexual differences as well, as you point out.

    Many on the left seem inclined to create a single gender child and, from some appearances, are enjoying a bit of success. Other young people rebel at this notion. While this attitude towards the next generation might just be an irresponsible fashion of the day (like indifference to debt, etc.) we can hope that succeeding generations are able to discard this foolishness as quickly as they can.

  4. #134
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    Re: Paris Riots After Gay Marriage Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Jredbaron96 View Post
    The majority of studies have found no real difference between children raised by gay couples than those raised by straight couples.

    http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastor...7/amicus29.pdf

    http://www.cpa.ca/cpasite/userfiles/...%20%281%29.pdf

    http://www.psychology.org.au/Assets/...Lit-Review.pdf
    These studies are jumping to political slanted conclusions based on a lack of available evidence. The simple fact of the matter is that there just aren't that many homosexual couples raising children in the first place, and that any scientific research we do have dealing with the issue doesn't go back any further than a few decades at the utmost.

    We really have absolutely no idea what kind of implications tolerating such a thing on a society wide scale might entail on a longterm basis.

    What we do know, from extensive experience dealing with singleparent households, is that children raised in single gender heterosexual environments tend to exhibit some rather disturbing predispositions towards anti-social behavior later in life. I'm sorry, but a gay man is never going to be as effective at dealing with young girls as a woman would be, and a lesbian is never going to be able provide the same kind of role model for a young boy that a man would be able to.

    You'd think this would be simple common sense... but apparently not.

    Oh please. The Witherspoon Institute is a conservative think tank
    So what?

    that's been pointed out before for using flawed studies.
    According to whom? As I have just pointed out, the research supposedly supporting homosexual parenting is flawed as well.

    We're not.
    Have same sex couples ever been allowed to raise children anywhere in recorded human history?

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    Re: Paris Riots After Gay Marriage Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    These studies are jumping to political slanted conclusions based on a lack of available evidence. The simple fact of the matter is that there just aren't that many homosexual couples raising children in the first place, and that any scientific research we do have dealing with the issue doesn't go back any further than a few decades at the utmost.
    What a vague and completely baseless accusation. Mind actually pointing out where the flaws are, or are you just going to dodge it again?

    We really have absolutely no idea what kind of implications tolerating such a thing on a society wide scale might entail on a longterm basis.
    Why don't you let me in on your secret: What exactly is going to happen if we allow gays to marry and raise children? Don't be shy.

    What we do know, from extensive experience dealing with singleparent households, is that children raised in single gender heterosexual environments tend to exhibit some rather disturbing predispositions towards anti-social behavior later in life.
    The bolded aspect is the only true part. I've already shown that the gender of the parents is not the vital detail, only that there needs to be two, loving and stable parents.

    Also, I love how you said single gender heterosexuals. Guess we shouldn't let them raise kids, eh?

    I'm sorry, but a gay man is never going to be as effective at dealing with young girls as a woman would be, and a lesbian is never going to be able provide the same kind of role model for a young boy that a man would be able to.
    Unless you've interviewed every gay man/lesbian, or at least a sizable portion of the population in relationship to straight heterosexuals concerning that relationship, then you have no basis to make that claim.

    You'd think this would be simple common sense... but apparently not.
    Gotta love the social conservative defense "It's just common sense." Such a unspecific answer, with no real counterpoint being made.



    So what?
    Using them to debate this is like if I used Media Matters to argue about Fox New's bias. It shrouds up the facts behind a fog of partisan rhetoric.


    According to whom? As I have just pointed out, the research supposedly supporting homosexual parenting is flawed as well.
    You haven't pointed out jack ****.



    Have same sex couples ever been allowed to raise children anywhere in recorded human history?
    Appeal to tradition is a logical fallacy. Try again.
    "Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough."
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    Re: Paris Riots After Gay Marriage Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Jredbaron96 View Post
    The majority of studies have found no real difference between children raised by gay couples than those raised by straight couples.
    It has been found that gay 'couples' can raise healthy normal children. This has been demonstrated in several studies.
    Oh please. The Witherspoon Institute is a conservative think tank that's been pointed out before for using flawed studies.
    Your ideology is preventing you from looking at the bigger picture. It is not enough to say it is 'conservative' and rest your case. You have to demonstrate what flaws there are, and you can easily do the research as they supply the links in that article.
    We're not.
    Yes, in fact that's being done where no score is being kept in games, games where girls are being treated like boys, games where anything potentially dangerous is outlawed. This results in a generation of far too many 'girlymen'.


    I think Redress said it was 1/3 of Lesbian couples and 1/4 of gay couples
    It's still a small number.

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    Re: Paris Riots After Gay Marriage Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    These studies are jumping to political slanted conclusions based on a lack of available evidence. The simple fact of the matter is that there just aren't that many homosexual couples raising children in the first place, and that any scientific research we do have dealing with the issue doesn't go back any further than a few decades at the utmost.We really have absolutely no idea what kind of implications tolerating such a thing on a society wide scale might entail on a longterm basis.
    The dangers of having children raised in same sex marriages would probably be their possible adherence to political correctness and other left wing foolishness. Could a 'real man' be raised in that environment? It would be a challenge.

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    Re: Paris Riots After Gay Marriage Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    It has been found that gay 'couples' can raise healthy normal children. This has been demonstrated in several studies.
    Okay.

    Your ideology is preventing you from looking at the bigger picture.
    *Coughs* *Shudders* *Coughs*

    Sorry, chocked on the irony there.

    It is not enough to say it is 'conservative' and rest your case.

    You have to demonstrate what flaws there are, and you can easily do the research as they supply the links in that article.
    Except they didn't supply the links. The only ones they did argued that kids are worse off in single parent households, a point that I am not contesting. Once they get to the gay couple portion, all they link are some books.

    Yes, in fact that's being done where no score is being kept in games, games where girls are being treated like boys, games where anything potentially dangerous is outlawed. This results in a generation of far too many 'girlymen'.
    What a fascinating claim. Care to back that up?


    It's still a small number.
    And still infinitely preferable to them growing up in an orphanage.
    "Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough."
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    Re: Paris Riots After Gay Marriage Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Jredbaron96 View Post
    What a vague and completely baseless accusation. Mind actually pointing out where the flaws are, or are you just going to dodge it again?
    Agan, lack of depth in the field where this particular area of study is concerned.

    Openly homosexual households with children were virtually unheard of before the 1970s. They are still hardly common today.

    The claim that we can have anywhere near enough data compiled to make any kind of definitive statement on the merits of homosexual parenting after such a short period (using such a limited sample) is completely laughable.

    Why don't you let me in on your secret: What exactly is going to happen if we allow gays to marry and raise children? Don't be shy.
    Trouble fitting in with one's peer group, feelings of alienation and inadequacy, possibly a certain degree of gender confusion, etca, etca...

    The bolded aspect is the only true part. I've already shown that the gender of the parents is not the vital detail, only that there needs to be two, loving and stable parents.
    You have shown nothing of the kind.

    Also, I love how you said single gender heterosexuals. Guess we shouldn't let them raise kids, eh?
    I wouldn't let them adopt, if that's what you mean.

    Unless you've interviewed every gay man/lesbian, or at least a sizable portion of the population in relationship to straight heterosexuals concerning that relationship, then you have no basis to make that claim.
    Nonsense. There are mountains of data to suggest that input from both genders is essential to parenting.

    Women are naturally more inclined to nurture than men and tend to be far more attentive. Boys raised in fatherless households often grow up predisposed to behavioral problems.

    Furthermore, there are lot of conditions specific to the development of each gender that an opposite gender homosexual parent would have no experience with.

    What would a gay man know about periods? What would a lesbian know about wet dreams?

    Gotta love the social conservative defense "It's just common sense." Such a unspecific answer, with no real counterpoint being made.
    Again, because the last several million years of evolutionary history make no difference what-so-ever, right?

    Appeal to tradition is a logical fallacy. Try again.
    Bull****. If you want to suggest that tradition is wrong, you're going to have to provide some serious evidence to support that conclusion.

    The pro-gay adoption lobby has done nothing of the kind.

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    Re: Paris Riots After Gay Marriage Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    While what you say is true there is also a great deal of indifference towards children that there has been in previous generations. Of course aborting them is the most obvious, linking them to women's rights, a career choice, a 'punishment', etc. but we also don't care much about their sexual differences as well, as you point out.

    Many on the left seem inclined to create a single gender child and, from some appearances, are enjoying a bit of success. Other young people rebel at this notion. While this attitude towards the next generation might just be an irresponsible fashion of the day (like indifference to debt, etc.) we can hope that succeeding generations are able to discard this foolishness as quickly as they can.
    I actually view this as being the only redeeming aspect of the declining power and influence of Western Civilization.

    We might very well be doomed to be supplanted and eventually overrun by the growing economic, military, and cultural powerhouses of the East. However, with any luck, when we eventually do wind up going the way of the Romans and Byzantines, the, quite frankly, cancerous socio-political views which have so marred our culture for the last century might very well die with us.

    That, at least, is a comforting thought.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 04-27-13 at 01:14 PM.

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