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Thread: Pew: 93% Of Households Lost Net Worth 2009-11

  1. #21
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    Re: Pew: 93% Of Households Lost Net Worth 2009-11

    Sure, I agree. A middle class tax cut would stir things up. Instead, working people just got a 2% increase in their tax burden. The USG created trillions and kept the beneficiaries to a few thousand people. Instead, they could have sent every tax-payer (who actually paid) a $10K 6 month Visa card (non-cash withdrawal) that expired in 6 months. But heaven forbid we give anything to workers. Bankers are the only people that matter.

    The top brackets have been at historic lows for a decade - how well did that work out? Yet the crown jewel of Romney's proposals was to eliminate his 15% capital gains tax. With $300M in the bank, I doubt that this self-serving cut would have generated any kind of recovery.

    ...and before you say it - I did NOT vote for Obama (in 2012) and he has not done a good job of stewarding the nation through these difficult times. OTOH, I'm not sure that anything can solve the issues of automation and globalization of labor. So in a way, Obama's focus on welfare may be very appropriate since jobs are fewer and pay less and less. Me, I'm self-employed and I'm not affected. But I see how my tenants struggle and it makes me blue. I'm probably the only landlord in America who gives out rent cuts instead of rent increases - that's how sad I am.




    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    Stimulus proposed by republican politicians has always been tax-cut heavy. Which can be extremely helpful during economic downturns that coexist with high inflation (tax cuts support disinflation). But for a 1930's esque economic downturn mired in asset deflation (net wealth declined by more than 100% of GDP), tax centered stimulus is a waste of time. Tax revenue as a percentage of output sits near post WWII lows, and still the recovery is meager at best.

  2. #22
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    Re: Pew: 93% Of Households Lost Net Worth 2009-11

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    Yeah, that's not a response.

    You haven't acknowledged that inequality has been rising for decades -- or that the recession caused inequality to drop temporarily. E.g. the stock market took a dive for a few years, and is now climbing again.



    Actually, it's a well-established fact that taxing the bejesus out of the wealthy, and using it for entitlement programs, does reduce income inequality. That's why Europe has lower rates of inequality than the US. This is not to say that's the type of policies we want, only that letting the free market "do its thing" will increase inequality, not reduce it.


    And it's not surprising that the worst recession since the 1930s also has the weakest recovery. I mean, really, what did you expect -- that a massive real estate bubble and credit crisis would go away in 5 minutes? Again, not even Reagan could have done that.

    I would say Obama made some mistakes, notably his attempts to stave off foreclosures failed miserably, and bank regulation is still inadequate. That said, neither McCain nor Romney would do any better.
    Wait until Obamacare is fully implemented, if you want to some inequality. The political class and the super rich are going to be the only folks to survive it.
    Quote Originally Posted by americanwoman View Post
    So there is absolutely no evidence this woman, whom you called a slut, did this but you are ready to take someone's word as evidence. Guess you don't think witch hunts have to end when it's going after the certain people.

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    Re: Pew: 93% Of Households Lost Net Worth 2009-11

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Wait until Obamacare is fully implemented, if you want to some inequality. The political class and the super rich are going to be the only folks to survive it.
    Actually, a great deal of data supports the notion that access to health care is major determinant of income mobility. Health care inflation > overall inflation by more than 100%

    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Pew: 93% Of Households Lost Net Worth 2009-11

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    Sure, I agree. A middle class tax cut would stir things up. Instead, working people just got a 2% increase in their tax burden. The USG created trillions and kept the beneficiaries to a few thousand people. Instead, they could have sent every tax-payer (who actually paid) a $10K 6 month Visa card (non-cash withdrawal) that expired in 6 months. But heaven forbid we give anything to workers. Bankers are the only people that matter.
    A heavily indebted society is more likely to pay down debt with windfall proceeds. This can be observed by the Bush tax cuts throughout the 2000's. When Americans lose $15 trillion in net wealth, it is hard to believe they will alter their consumption patterns in a way that circumvents an economic downturn.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Pew: 93% Of Households Lost Net Worth 2009-11

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    Actually, a great deal of data supports the notion that access to health care is major determinant of income mobility. Health care inflation > overall inflation by more than 100%

    As soon as Obamacare is fully implemented and Americans have LESS access to healthcare, we'll some bad results.
    Quote Originally Posted by americanwoman View Post
    So there is absolutely no evidence this woman, whom you called a slut, did this but you are ready to take someone's word as evidence. Guess you don't think witch hunts have to end when it's going after the certain people.

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    Re: Pew: 93% Of Households Lost Net Worth 2009-11

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    As soon as Obamacare is fully implemented and Americans have LESS access to healthcare, we'll some bad results.
    Your opinion is based on partisan rhetoric and not valid economic analysis. Hence, it will be taken with a grain of salt.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Pew: 93% Of Households Lost Net Worth 2009-11

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    Your opinion is based on partisan rhetoric and not valid economic analysis. Hence, it will be taken with a grain of salt.
    Or as much salt in the Dead Sea, with regards to some issue

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    Re: Pew: 93% Of Households Lost Net Worth 2009-11

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    You're reading the chart wrong, it does correctly indicate Reagan-Bush until 1994. The tick mark is for 1995.
    No, you have your facts wrong. By the time 1994 rolled around, Bush had already been out of office for two years.

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    Re: Pew: 93% Of Households Lost Net Worth 2009-11

    I might not be understanding exactly what you are trying to convey. You don't think my $10K Visa card plan would hav worked? Remember, you couldn't use it as cah, so you couldn't make your payments with it. It would only be useful if you bought something.

    The housing bubble really distorted everything. People borrowed against their new paper wealth only to have the wealth evaporate. Now, they are playing catch-up.



    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    A heavily indebted society is more likely to pay down debt with windfall proceeds. This can be observed by the Bush tax cuts throughout the 2000's. When Americans lose $15 trillion in net wealth, it is hard to believe they will alter their consumption patterns in a way that circumvents an economic downturn.

  10. #30
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    Re: Pew: 93% Of Households Lost Net Worth 2009-11

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    I might not be understanding exactly what you are trying to convey. You don't think my $10K Visa card plan would hav worked? Remember, you couldn't use it as cah, so you couldn't make your payments with it. It would only be useful if you bought something.

    The housing bubble really distorted everything. People borrowed against their new paper wealth only to have the wealth evaporate. Now, they are playing catch-up.
    Yes it would have worked.

    Would have sold lots of cars,home repairs,tvs etc!

    Instead we kept too big to fail & the good old boys

    network flush with $ !

    Arrgh!

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