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Thread: World's First GM Babies Born

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    Re: World's First GM Babies Born

    The only thing I don't like about IVF is that sperm are supposed to compete and the healthiest/strongest sperm fertilize the egg, but with IVF they choose a sperm and use it to fertilize. I don't think this creates the best genetic outcome.

    In terms of all the modifications, there is no evidence that people modifying their genes will lead to viable offspring who do not have their own genetic diseases down the line. Natural selection will still win out by eliminating modifications that are not advantageous to the species.

    As for creating higher intelligence, that's highly subjective. Most scientists base intelligence on IQ which is really an aptitude test, which is a test of logic and not creativity. I don't think it's necessarily advantangeous to create babies who are more logical. If we had more creative and critical thinking modalities included in the education system, people would have higher intelligence anyway. Making people "smarter" so that they can do the same mundane education modules and narrow-minded thinking of the industrial education system does not a better human make.

    I don't think humanity is ready for elective genetic engineering of their offspring, but it seems like it's going to start happening soon one way or the other. In the case of the OP, it's my opinion that if a person's genes don't permit them to reproduce, then there is a good reason for that, and we should not be mixing genetic lines together.

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    Re: World's First GM Babies Born

    I have a question.

    If we manage to "fix" life so that we no longer need to worry about disease and genetic "disabilities" then aren't we also shutting off the mechanism by which we evolve as a species? Are we really so arrogant as to believe that as a species we have reached the pinnacle of our evolutionary journey and no longer need the trials of nature to encourage us in one direction or another?

    What happens next? Will we institute a UN council on biological desirability to sort out what the next level of human "progress" will be?

    In the past we have seen governments take on the role of God and gods and all those civilizations, no matter how great their accomplishments at the time, have fallen. There is a reason for that.

    Nature is entropic. It MUST be entropic because that diversity, including the pain and suffering that goes with it, is what gives our lives meaning and allows us to grow as individuals, as civilizations and as a species.

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    Re: World's First GM Babies Born

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    These are baby steps toward a future when no child will ever have to face a life of pain and crippling disease if inter-utero genetic modification can eliminate the genetic cause.
    I certainly appreciate what you're saying there, but does the possibility not exist that in solving one problem we're simply exacerbating others?

    We've got ~7 billion on this little planet as it is and population is growing logarithmically (on the steep end) if not expotentially.

    Meanwhile, we're depeleting natural resources at an ever increasing rate, creating polution like never before in history, and replacing traditional middle class jobs with machines.

    Sure, these kids are gonna be healthier than they would have otherwise have been, in a sense.

    But when they grow up jobless, with no access to clean water, breathing smog, and suffering from the kinds of communicable diseases that grow in poverty and squalor have we (or "science" really) done them any favors?

    Now obviously this is a "doom & gloom" assessment of the global future, and who knows, maybe cold fusion and perpetual motion machines and our ability to discern the secretes of the Universe once we learn to talk to the Dolphins will render it more apocryphal than prophetic.

    But it's at least something to think about.

    Packing more people onto the planet by means of circumventing Darwin might just hasten our demise as a species.

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    Re: World's First GM Babies Born

    Well how about that!!!! Hitlers master race is only a generation away!

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    Re: World's First GM Babies Born

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    If we manage to "fix" life so that we no longer need to worry about disease and genetic "disabilities" then aren't we also shutting off the mechanism by which we evolve as a species? Are we really so arrogant as to believe that as a species we have reached the pinnacle of our evolutionary journey and no longer need the trials of nature to encourage us in one direction or another?
    There are many who argue that humans have not evolved all that much in the past 100,000 years because our environment no longer challenges us enough to need major adaptations. If this argument is at all true, then it means the only way for us to change is if we change ourselves.

    I personally think it's folly to assume that genetic engineering is the next natural course of our species' development. It's an idea that has been propagated by science since we discovered DNA, and expounded upon by everything from science fiction to actual scientific theory. It's similar to how some transhumanists believe our next natural leap in development is to embed technology into our bio-structures.

    Time will tell I guess, but I believe that there is a certain foundational arrogance to our culture that presumes we can always do better than nature, when that is often proven wrong. It's colonialism transplanted into genetic engineering. There is a lot about the human body and consciousness that is still a big question mark, and to go tinkering with that is hubris.

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    Re: World's First GM Babies Born

    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    I certainly appreciate what you're saying there, but does the possibility not exist that in solving one problem we're simply exacerbating others?

    We've got ~7 billion on this little planet as it is and population is growing logarithmically (on the steep end) if not expotentially.

    Meanwhile, we're depeleting natural resources at an ever increasing rate, creating polution like never before in history, and replacing traditional middle class jobs with machines.

    Sure, these kids are gonna be healthier than they would have otherwise have been, in a sense.

    But when they grow up jobless, with no access to clean water, breathing smog, and suffering from the kinds of communicable diseases that grow in poverty and squalor have we (or "science" really) done them any favors?

    Now obviously this is a "doom & gloom" assessment of the global future, and who knows, maybe cold fusion and perpetual motion machines and our ability to discern the secretes of the Universe once we learn to talk to the Dolphins will render it more apocryphal than prophetic.

    But it's at least something to think about.

    Packing more people onto the planet by means of circumventing Darwin might just hasten our demise as a species.
    Hmm. Well, if we as a species would simply refrain from utilizing any medical treatment whatsoever, I'm fairly certain the planet's population would plummet rather quickly.

    Problem solved.

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    Re: World's First GM Babies Born

    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: World's First GM Babies Born

    such advancements in medical science makes me both happy and worry


    from the link

    "Geneticists fear that one day this method could be used to create new races of humans with extra, desired characteristics such as strength or high intelligence."

    l have to agree with it.
    "Sovereignty is not given, it is taken." ATATÜRK

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    Re: World's First GM Babies Born

    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    such advancements in medical science makes me both happy and worry


    from the link

    "Geneticists fear that one day this method could be used to create new races of humans with extra, desired characteristics such as strength or high intelligence."

    l have to agree with it.
    .....and giant breasts.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: World's First GM Babies Born

    There are presently genetic/gestation researchers working on the prevention of birth defects.

    It was only a matter of time before they learned there were other aspects of the process they could also affect.

    The job of science is to understand, explain, predict, and control. But, do all that with respect to ethics and morality? Not a part of the job description.

    Science and scientists most definitely need a governing body similar to civilian officials in charge of the military, as the last thing we want is the military in charge of the military. Likewise, we also don't want science in chrage of science.

    Discovering something is great.

    Making sure all the misery-causing bugs are worked out first, even better.

    Leaving the decision to utilize said discovery out of the hands of science/scientists and in the hands of humanity's best non-science ethicists, priceless.
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