Page 13 of 14 FirstFirst ... 311121314 LastLast
Results 121 to 130 of 137

Thread: World's First GM Babies Born

  1. #121
    Sage
    jmotivator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:59 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    16,636

    Re: World's First GM Babies Born

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    But then the value of bad poetry would shoot through the roof. I don't think you've thought this through.

    Maybe the scientists are just frustrated poets.

  2. #122
    Sage
    Sherman123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Northeast US
    Last Seen
    11-23-17 @ 11:12 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,774

    Re: World's First GM Babies Born

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    I think this is the more salient point. Messing with genetics when we don't actually understand the full ramifications of such meddling is a recipe for pain and suffering.

    I really don't get the enthusiasm... we can't even understand the human body well enough to avoid regularly producing medicines that kill us AND do what they are supposed to... but playing with human DNA is A-OK?
    This is circular reasoning. We don't understand genetics or medicine well enough for our practice of it to be perfect, ergo we should not be doing it until it is perfect. The problem in this is clear.

    We have a firm enough understanding of genetics to make extraordinary progress in the field of gene therapy both for living humans and in-utero care. No one is forcing it on you, but the rest of us are happy to embrace our increasing ability to manipulate and master our biology for our own ends. It is a crowning achievement for our species.

    PS: We can in fact make medicines that do not kill you. It is why 99.999% (probably some more 9's) do not kill you. We are fairly good at making medications.

  3. #123
    Sage
    Sherman123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Northeast US
    Last Seen
    11-23-17 @ 11:12 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,774

    Re: World's First GM Babies Born

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    I don't think so. Concern for the totality of human kind trumps ignorance and willfulness.

    If one of my grand kids or a friend's grand [ or greatgrand] child end up breeding with one of these freaks of science, well, lets just say, I'd like to keep my options open.
    Freaks of science? This post is an example of what I think a great struggle will be in the 21st Century. A fight between advocates of advanced gene therapy, prosthetics, and other means of technological enhancement and control and those who oppose them. The bio-luddites and technophobes are already coming out of the woodworks or rather have been entrenching for a few years now just look at Leon Kass, Francis Fukuyama, etc. It will only become more pronounced as time goes on. Those who support allowing these measures, experiments, and advancements to proceed unhindered will have to fight a bit harder for it I think.

  4. #124
    Sage
    jmotivator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:59 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    16,636

    Re: World's First GM Babies Born

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    This is circular reasoning. We don't understand genetics or medicine well enough for our practice of it to be perfect, ergo we should not be doing it until it is perfect. The problem in this is clear.

    We have a firm enough understanding of genetics to make extraordinary progress in the field of gene therapy both for living humans and in-utero care. No one is forcing it on you, but the rest of us are happy to embrace our increasing ability to manipulate and master our biology for our own ends. It is a crowning achievement for our species.

    This is an over statement of the level of human mastery. Hubris has always been the preamble of all great blunders.


    PS: We can in fact make medicines that do not kill you. It is why 99.999% (probably some more 9's) do not kill you. We are fairly good at making medications.

    And I am not arguing that we can't. I am arguing that the mistakes become horrific when they are genetic.

  5. #125
    Sage
    Sherman123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Northeast US
    Last Seen
    11-23-17 @ 11:12 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,774

    Re: World's First GM Babies Born

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post

    Why can't we just be satisfied with the way nature made us? There is nothing inherently wrong with being human as we are. The problem lies in always creating problems that need solutions, or trying to invite crazy technological interventions for problems that have simple cures.

    Genetic engineering will just be another profit-based, class stratified technology that people will have to compete for access to, when the cures to problems lie all around us and potentially in other systems of medicine. I mean, we're decimating the Amazon basin right now, which contains untolled and yet undiscovered medicines that could provide hope for humanity.

    I think electively engineering our children is a disaster waiting to happen, based on our sheer child-like ignorance and fascination with the concept of superman.

    The world does not need super humans. It needs humans, as they are, to change their priorities.
    I find this reasoning utterly horrifying. Why can't we be satisfied with nature? Because nature is terrible, nature kills people. Everything we have on this planet we battled against nature to create. From the animals we domesticated and who's evolution we artificially directed, to the buildings we raised and the ground we scraped against to make it possible. Almost all of our medical advances are an effort on our part to cope with the growth of civilization and check the ravages of nature from disease to water impurity. Natural is terrible, it is the artifice of man that is brilliant.

    More technically accurate there is nothing inherently positive or negative about nature. Just because something is natural does not make it a positive thing.

    With genetic engineering, gene therapy, and other bio-medical advances we have at last in our grasp the possibility of mastering our nature and improving upon the poor designs we were left with. The coming century and beyond offer the tantalizing prospect of defeating cancer & disease, improving our intelligence, accentuating our senses, and so much more. For the first time in our history we will have the opportunity to guide, at an individual level, our own evolution. It is a crowning achievement of our species, something true humanists everywhere should celebrate and welcome with excitement!

    As for class stratified access to this care and technology, for all the woes about health insurance in the United States most people in the developed world have access to all the accoutrements of modern medical technology which at their inception (like the MRI) had been cost prohibitive. Gene therapy while currently very expensive like all commercialized products is almost certain to fall as adoption increases, moreover it is often a one time treatment as opposed to a long term maintenance cost which is attractive on a cost-benefit analysis. More pointedly perhaps is that personalized treatment from sequenced genomes and other associated genetic advances have already filtered into the mainstream.

    Finally the journey to the post-human is our destiny, and it is a damn exciting one.

  6. #126
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Last Seen
    01-22-17 @ 09:27 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    4,136

    Re: World's First GM Babies Born

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    But then the value of bad poetry would shoot through the roof. I don't think you've thought this through.
    In that case why are you complaining? Your poetry of whatever skill you are would increase in value.

  7. #127
    Sage
    Sherman123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Northeast US
    Last Seen
    11-23-17 @ 11:12 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,774

    Re: World's First GM Babies Born

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    This is an over statement of the level of human mastery. Hubris has always been the preamble of all great blunders.





    And I am not arguing that we can't. I am arguing that the mistakes become horrific when they are genetic.
    It is not an over-statement. Deaths and traumatic side effects from medications are extremely minimal, and when one discounts medication with known side effects for mortal or extraordinary ailments the number falls even further. Furthermore we accept risk as a natural part of medical technology and advancement, but luckily as previously mentioned medical science and our pharmaceuticals industry are actually fairly good at producing medications. High profile incidents not withstanding the risk is extremely small.

    As for the risk of gene therapy problems, again I suppose no one is forcing you to make use of them. I for one am delighted at the progress oncology and genetics experts are making at places like U-Penn where genetic manipulation of T-Cells has led to one of the greatest breakthrough in cancer research in 20 years.

  8. #128
    A Man Without A Country
    Mr. Invisible's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New Jersey
    Last Seen
    12-09-17 @ 06:49 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    4,957
    Blog Entries
    71

    Re: World's First GM Babies Born

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    The potential for enhancing the lives of individuals who would otherwise be born with serious health issues is enormous, and quite exciting. These are baby steps toward a future when no child will ever have to face a life of pain and crippling disease if inter-utero genetic modification can eliminate the genetic cause. This is a good thing. I'm not understanding the fear and negativity. This is truly an amazing and awesome scientific breakthrough!
    I'm not saying that it shouldn't be used for those purposes such as the ones you mentioned, I actually support such endeavors. However, what I am worried about is what if genetically modifying babies moves outside that strictly medical sphere and goes into engineering humans that all have genius intellect and amazing bodies? Wouldn't that, after a certain amount of time, effectively kill off natural evolution? There are some very bright people who know much more about this than either of us and even they are worried. (Bioethics expert warns against GM babies plan | News | The Christian Institute) (Will these Genetically Modified Babies Alter Human Species?)
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

  9. #129
    Sage
    Sherman123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Northeast US
    Last Seen
    11-23-17 @ 11:12 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,774

    Re: World's First GM Babies Born

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    I'm not saying that it shouldn't be used for those purposes such as the ones you mentioned, I actually support such endeavors. However, what I am worried about is what if genetically modifying babies moves outside that strictly medical sphere and goes into engineering humans that all have genius intellect and amazing bodies? Wouldn't that, after a certain amount of time, effectively kill off natural evolution? There are some very bright people who know much more about this than either of us and even they are worried. (Bioethics expert warns against GM babies plan | News | The Christian Institute) (Will these Genetically Modified Babies Alter Human Species?)
    Of course it will. The inevitable, eventual, and desirable goal is to master evolution and take control of our destiny. To become more than what nature has produced.

  10. #130
    Sage
    Ikari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 01:05 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    54,124

    Re: World's First GM Babies Born

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Gehrig View Post
    World's first GM babies born | Mail Online

    Personally, I consider this excellent news and I am disappointed in the Mail that they only chose to print quotes from people opposed to such measures. Because of this scientific breakthrough, thirty families have been blessed with children they could not otherwise have had.
    You know how many orphans exist in the world? Selfish people if you ask me.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

Page 13 of 14 FirstFirst ... 311121314 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •