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Planned Parenthood Knew of Gosnell's Abortion Horrors [W:24]

Re: Planned Parenthood Knew of Gosnell's Abortion Horrors

ernst barkmann said:
1.)i will just restate this again.

2.)PP has admitted it knew of problems, but PP has to stated "ignorance" when it comes to what happened at the clinic.

3.)they cannot admit they knew of an illegal activity or it dooms the people and the organization as a whole.

how? do you know of problems at the clinic, and then say......we are ignorant on what went on there.
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1.) thanks it changes nothing
2.) yep, problems that were complaints, ignorance as in they didn't know what the actual problems were
3.( they could but probably wouldnt but again this changes NOTHING
4.) easy, in my example i KNEW OF THE PROBLEMS in the marriage but i was IGNORANT to the fact that the girl was cheating and the guy was beating her

what dont you understand?

thanks for restating but nothing has changed, sorry you have no proof of what you claimed
 
Re: Planned Parenthood Knew of Gosnell's Abortion Horrors

sangha said:
Thank you for agreeing with me.

As I said, there is no evidence that anyone ever told PP of anything criminal
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we (PP) knew of problems at the clinic, ......but we are ignorant on what went on there.
 
Re: Planned Parenthood Knew of Gosnell's Abortion Horrors

ernst barkmann said:
we (PP) knew of problems at the clinic, ......but we are ignorant on what went on there.
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yep they knew of complaints but did not know what was factually happening there :shrug:

again what dont you get

I knew of the problems in that marriage but i was ignorant to the cheating and abuse.
again, what are you trying to IMPLY?
what dont you understand?
 
Re: Planned Parenthood Knew of Gosnell's Abortion Horrors

LowDown said:
1. Well, we ought to wait and see how extraterrestrials regard us before giving them rights.



2. But the unborn are neurologically active, with brains, after a certain point which is actually very early on, still in the first trimester.



3. No, this isn't correct if you go by "neurologically active" and possessing a "mind" by which I presume you mean functioning brain.

4. Baby killing is the law of the land. Planned parenthood was originally all about keeping specific populations under control, by which it was meant undesireable populations like non-whites and the mentally ill and deformed. From that day to this Planned Parenthood has been focused mainly on these populations, and with great success.

5. It's not complicated. We just decided to let people kill babies who were inconvienent or unwanted. That's really all there is to it. All this stuff about neurologically active and so on is just so much lame-assed BS rationalization.

6. Don' you worry none. They ain't gonna change dat law no MATTER what. Yo can going on killing babies to yo heart's content, active neurological systems, functioning minds and all.

7. Besides which, there are, as you point out, certain utilitarian benefits from the practice. I'm especially fond of the way in which liberals are so much more likely to get abortions.
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1. Yeah it could be deadly

2. Nope the fetus does not become truly neurologically active until the 22 week of pregnancy. This activity is only a generative one, the spontaneous nerve pulses could merely be autonomous or spontaneous reflexes aimed at stimulating and developing muscle and organ tissue. Nevertheless, it is in this month that a complex cerebral cortex, appears and is typically complete. What is actually going on mentally at that point is unknown, but the hardware is in place for a mind] to exist in at least a primitive state.

3. Oh yes it is read number 2 again

4. Now you're just ranting

5. Abortion is meant to get rid of the undesirables that's a cold fact and is not rationalizing I am merely telling you straight up how we roll

6. 99.9% of the time when they're aborted they have no minds. About 47 million abortion worldwide a year are performed it's horrible in the eyes of the pro lifers and watch helplessly as there precious fetuses they want to roam the planet are being replaced on a daily basis. The unborn are replaceable that's the cold truth no rationalizing there

7. I don't care about liberals getting abortions. Catholics and protestants get them as well. All demographics get them and I don't care which one get's the most. No need to make this political

But anyway utilitarian wise this is what abortion is currently doing

Population Control
Eugenics 90% diagnosed with down syndrome are aborted for example
Saves money
Saves time
Saves space
Keeps nature healthy longer as mankind is slowly destroying it bit by bit
 
Re: Planned Parenthood Knew of Gosnell's Abortion Horrors

tererun said:
Abortion is still not killing people.
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In your warped mind.

They were screaming when he 'snipped their spinal cord'.
 
sangha said:
Nice dodge. Maybe someday, you'll actually tell us what PP should have specifically complained about.
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Or you could read up on the trial. The clinic conditions were filthy. There are pictures available of some of the equipment, and you can see for yourself.

There was a systemic failure--Gosnell had been reported, but the health dept. didn't follow up. He continued to ply his trade for 17 years: Pill-mill by day and abortion mill by night. It was a narcotics task force that brought him down.

If women were coming to PP clinics and complaining, what do you think they were complaining about? The receptionist being rude?
 
From the grand jury report (page 2):

The clinic reeked of animal urine, courtesy of the cats that were allowed to roam (and defecate) freely. Furniture and blankets were stained with blood. Instruments were not properly sterilized. Disposable medical supplies were not disposed of; they were reused, over and over again. Medical equipment – such as the defibrillator, the EKG, the pulse oximeter, the blood pressure cuff – was generally broken; even when it worked, it wasn’t used. The emergency exit was padlocked shut.

http://www.phila.gov/districtattorney/pdfs/grandjurywomensmedical.pdf
 
nota bene said:
Or you could read up on the trial. The clinic conditions were filthy. There are pictures available of some of the equipment, and you can see for yourself.

There was a systemic failure--Gosnell had been reported, but the health dept. didn't follow up. He continued to ply his trade for 17 years: Pill-mill by day and abortion mill by night. It was a narcotics task force that brought him down.

If women were coming to PP clinics and complaining, what do you think they were complaining about? The receptionist being rude?
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So are you claiming that the complaints that PP received were about unsanitary equipment? If so, do you have any evidence to support this?

Also, this thread isn't about the failure of the health dept. It is about the dishonest claim, made in the OP, that PP knew of criminal activity and didn't report it.
 
sangha said:
So are you claiming that the complaints that PP received were about unsanitary equipment? If so, do you have any evidence to support this?

Also, this thread isn't about the failure of the health dept. It is about the dishonest claim, made in the OP, that PP knew of criminal activity and didn't report it.
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The OP isn't dishonest. It does not mention the phrase "criminal activity"; it refers to "problems." This is because Dayle Steinberg said that PP was aware that there were problems.

And BTW, you asked if there was any "confirmation" that what the links in the OP claimed was what Steinberg actually said. I guess you couldn't be bothered to check for yourself, but that's okay because I did:

"Steinberg said that when Gosnell was in practice, women would sometimes come to Planned Parenthood for services after first visiting Gosnell's West Philadelphia clinic, and would complain to staff about the conditions there.

"We would always encourage them to report it to the Department of Health," Steinberg said as she sat with Steinem before Tuesday's events.

Steinem stresses reproductive rights at Planned Parenthood gathering - Philly.com

Further, has Steinberg denied what she has been quoted as saying. Uh, no.

No need; it doesn't matter what she said to those whose ears are closed because their minds are made up.
 
nota bene said:
Or you could read up on the trial. The clinic conditions were filthy. There are pictures available of some of the equipment, and you can see for yourself.

There was a systemic failure--Gosnell had been reported, but the health dept. didn't follow up. He continued to ply his trade for 17 years: Pill-mill by day and abortion mill by night. It was a narcotics task force that brought him down.

If women were coming to PP clinics and complaining, what do you think they were complaining about? The receptionist being rude?
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without proof it doesnt matter what their complaints were about really. PP did what they were supposed to with the facts they had. They told the woman to report it.
got any proof that PP factually knew anything yet?
 
nota bene said:
From the grand jury report (page 2):

The clinic reeked of animal urine, courtesy of the cats that were allowed to roam (and defecate) freely. Furniture and blankets were stained with blood. Instruments were not properly sterilized. Disposable medical supplies were not disposed of; they were reused, over and over again. Medical equipment – such as the defibrillator, the EKG, the pulse oximeter, the blood pressure cuff – was generally broken; even when it worked, it wasn’t used. The emergency exit was padlocked shut.

http://www.phila.gov/districtattorney/pdfs/grandjurywomensmedical.pdf
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thats horrendous, that guy is going down.
 
nota bene said:
The OP isn't dishonest. It does not mention the phrase "criminal activity"; it refers to "problems." This is because Dayle Steinberg said that PP was aware that there were problems.
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Please read the title of the thread. Are you suggesting that the "horrors" it refers to have nothing to do with the murder of born babies and refer only to the unsanitary conditions there?


And BTW, you asked if there was any "confirmation" that what the links in the OP claimed was what Steinberg actually said. I guess you couldn't be bothered to check for yourself, but that's okay because I did:

"Steinberg said that when Gosnell was in practice, women would sometimes come to Planned Parenthood for services after first visiting Gosnell's West Philadelphia clinic, and would complain to staff about the conditions there.

"We would always encourage them to report it to the Department of Health," Steinberg said as she sat with Steinem before Tuesday's events.

Steinem stresses reproductive rights at Planned Parenthood gathering - Philly.com

Further, has Steinberg denied what she has been quoted as saying. Uh, no.

No need; it doesn't matter what she said to those whose ears are closed because their minds are made up.
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I never denied that Steinberg acknowledged that women had complained to PP about the conditions at Gosnell's clinic. Don't know where you came up with that one.

But I did notice that you dodged my questions. I'll repeat

So are you claiming that the complaints that PP received were about unsanitary equipment? If so, do you have any evidence to support this?
Click to expand...
 
nota bene said:
The OP isn't dishonest. It does not mention the phrase "criminal activity"; it refers to "problems." This is because Dayle Steinberg said that PP was aware that there were problems.

And BTW, you asked if there was any "confirmation" that what the links in the OP claimed was what Steinberg actually said. I guess you couldn't be bothered to check for yourself, but that's okay because I did:

"Steinberg said that when Gosnell was in practice, women would sometimes come to Planned Parenthood for services after first visiting Gosnell's West Philadelphia clinic, and would complain to staff about the conditions there.

"We would always encourage them to report it to the Department of Health," Steinberg said as she sat with Steinem before Tuesday's events.

Steinem stresses reproductive rights at Planned Parenthood gathering - Philly.com

Further, has Steinberg denied what she has been quoted as saying. Uh, no.

No need; it doesn't matter what she said to those whose ears are closed because their minds are made up.
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no the OP title/ article title is in fact dishonest until proven otherwise :shrug: thats not even up for debate.

also thank you for quoting what PP said since that is further proof that PP didn't actually know what all was going on there lol
You are right about one thing though "closed minds" are made up and they will simply assume and make up what ever they want instead of going on the facts currently presented. Thats big of you to admit.
 
sangha said:
Please read the title of the thread. Are you suggesting that the "horrors" it refers to have nothing to do with the murder of born babies and refer only to the unsanitary conditions there?




I never denied that Steinberg acknowledged that women had complained to PP about the conditions at Gosnell's clinic. Don't know where you came up with that one.

But I did notice that you dodged my questions. I'll repeat
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Don't bother. I'm not up for spinning and twisting this evening.
 
nota bene said:
Don't bother. I'm not up for spinning and twisting this evening.
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typical, proved wrong and you run away.

Ill ask too, is the thread title/ article title factual or is it misleading?

are the horrors it is referring to only complaints?
 
AGENT J said:
typical, proved wrong and you run away.

Ill ask too, is the thread title/ article title factual or is it misleading?

are the horrors it is referring to only complaints?
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I don't believe that the thread title is misleading at all...If PP said that the complaints, the very same that nota outlined to you, and you said were horrendous, and common sense would dictate, are a health code violation, then PP, being another HC facility, has an obligation to report it.....
 
j-mac said:
I don't believe that the thread title is misleading at all...If PP said that the complaints, the very same that nota outlined to you, and you said were horrendous, and common sense would dictate, are a health code violation, then PP, being another HC facility, has an obligation to report it.....
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PP did not that the complaints were about the unsanitary conditions, did they?
 
j-mac said:
I don't believe that the thread title is misleading at all...If PP said that the complaints, the very same that nota outlined to you, and you said were horrendous, and common sense would dictate, are a health code violation, then PP, being another HC facility, has an obligation to report it.....
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are you claiming that PP factually new what nota said came out IN THE TRIAL??? (the trial that has nothing to do with PP)
because i see zero proof of that, do you have proof of that?

so yes the article title is 100% misleading and not true until anybody can prove otherwise :shrug:
PP had no obligation to report anything as of yet that, nobody even knows what PP factual new or any FACTS that were presented to them.

What dont you understand? seems you came in late and are confusing the two discussion going on
 
sangha said:
PP did not that the complaints were about the unsanitary conditions, did they?
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I don't think that the PP guy said, but in the outline that nota gave, I think it's testimony of one of the women that complained, or something like that...In any case any one of those would have been a health hazard, and if they were conveyed to anyone at PP, then they had an obligation to report them.
 
j-mac said:
I don't think that the PP guy said, but in the outline that nota gave, I think it's testimony of one of the women that complained, or something like that...In any case any one of those would have been a health hazard, and if they were conveyed to anyone at PP, then they had an obligation to report them.
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The woman did not testify that they told PP about the unsanitary conditions.

Try again.
 
ernst barkmann said:
We have learned during our investigation that Gosnell’s reckless ways were not unknown to people in the community. Some pro-choice and women’s health groups learned from Gosnell’s patients of their frightening experiences. Patients reported that they were put totally to sleep for long periods of time, that they were treated badly, and that the facility was dirty. The community groups tried to help women file complaints. They were unsuccessful, however, in part because the complaint form used by the Department of State – the same form that one would use to complain about a barber or a car salesman – is difficult to fill out, especially if the complainant is not well educated or does not speak English. It demands considerable personal information, and it does not guarantee confidentiality for medical records.

Women who had undergone abortions were generally not willing to send all of this information to Harrisburg. When representatives of one of the organizations tried to file a complaint with the Board of Medicine on behalf of the women, they were allegedly told that they could not file a third-party complaint.
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Id like a link to this also because this is interesting
 
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