• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Planned Parenthood Knew of Gosnell's Abortion Horrors [W:24]

Re: Planned Parenthood Knew of Gosnell's Abortion Horrors

How idiotic. The NRA does not cover up gun crime, it advocates for stopping it and prosecuting it.

Actually the NRA seems more in favor of shooting those who engage in it.


Either way, not exactly a stunning endorsement of the failed logic of trying to claim that they ignore it.
 
The sources for this seem dubious at best, and if I had to put money on it, I'd bet they are taking something completely out of context, but if planned parenthood knew exactly what was going on and didn't report it then they really should fire anyone who knew and didn't report.

But I highly doubt it.
 
Re: Planned Parenthood Knew of Gosnell's Abortion Horrors

How idiotic. The NRA does not cover up gun crime, it advocates for stopping it and prosecuting it.

They advocate stopping gun crime while at the same time supporting all policies that make it harder for the government to actually prosecute those crimes. Because they are terrified of registries, or of gun sellers having to keep records etc, etc.
 
Re: Planned Parenthood Knew of Gosnell's Abortion Horrors

Moderator's Warning:
Perhaps the last warning didn't make it clear enough.

This thread isn't about guns. A poster attempts to derail it and a bunch are taking the bait. Next person who continues to try to turn this into "Gun Control debate #257209" is going to get booted and points.

The topic is in the OP. If you disagree with the stories legitimacy, then comment on that. If you disagree with the reported action, comment on that. If you wish to try and comment one way or another on the action, comment on that. If you want to talk about Gun Registries take it to an appropriate thread
 
The sources for this seem dubious at best, and if I had to put money on it, I'd bet they are taking something completely out of context, but if planned parenthood knew exactly what was going on and didn't report it then they really should fire anyone who knew and didn't report.

But I highly doubt it.

Sorry, I'm going to need an actual source.

The Fox link just goes to LifeNews, which I trust about as much as MediaMatters or InfoWars, which is to say about 80% less than Fox, which I don't trust very much to begin with.

But talking about whether I trust information from LifeNews is jumping the gun, since the link provides no information anyway. There are no quotes. It doesn't even specify *what* PP supposedly knew. It says the statements were made at a fundraiser, so I clicked the link to THAT article, and guess what? It goes to yet another LifeNews article, and it doesn't mention anything about anyone at PP being aware of Gosnell's actions.

So as of yet, you haven't provided any facts.

Even that being the case, PP is not the police department. What exactly was anyone expecting them to do about a facility that isn't theirs with nothing but secondhand information?

But that's not even worth going into until you provide actual evidence that this even happened. Right now, it looks like some sort of rumor invented from thin air by LifeNews.


Steinem stresses reproductive rights at Planned Parenthood gathering - Philly.com

Here is actual source, which you can get to by clicking on the link in the OP, then on a link on life news.

Steinberg said that when Gosnell was in practice, women would sometimes come to Planned Parenthood for services after first visiting Gosnell's West Philadelphia clinic, and would complain to staff about the conditions there.

"We would always encourage them to report it to the Department of Health," Steinberg said as she sat with Steinem before Tuesday's events.

Of the Gosnell trial, Steinem added: "It makes more clear why you need Planned Parenthood."

If the PP President was made aware of complaints about this guy, it doesn't mean he knew about it until Gosnell got busted. However, it does mean that someone that works for PP eventually told him the story about getting complaints re: Gosnell.

Therefore, you can make the statement: PP knew about the Gosnell problems, but didn't report it themselves.
 
Steinem stresses reproductive rights at Planned Parenthood gathering - Philly.com

Here is actual source, which you can get to by clicking on the link in the OP, then on a link on life news.

If the PP President was made aware of complaints about this guy, it doesn't mean he knew about it until Gosnell got busted. However, it does mean that someone that works for PP eventually told him the story about getting complaints re: Gosnell.

Therefore, you can make the statement: PP knew about the Gosnell problems, but didn't report it themselves.

Cheers for that.

Well, then it gets into another thing I mentioned in my post: what do you expect some other company to do with secondhand information? Seriously. And what kind of information were they getting? Was it "I didn't like him," or "the nurse didn't wear gloves," or was it something more serious? These are women who opted not to get services from Gosnell's clinic and went elsewhere. So what did they see?

But fundamentally, PP told them to do the right thing. Who are they going to call and simply say, "I hear this clinic sucks?"

Is it possible someone at PP fell done on the job? Maybe. But if they did, it was someone "on the ground," so to speak, and we have no idea what kind of information they had. But from the sounds of things, not much. And they also don't have much ability or responsibility to do anything about it either.

Inspections and citizens have the job of keeping businesses honest. Both failed here. Some other business is not the problem.
 
This trial will bring out the facts, but I'm pretty sure such activities as went on in the Gosnell clinic were known outside the clinic, if not widely at least beyond those who worked there. No human being who worked there could possibly keep quiet about what they witnessed and it's likely workers told friends/family and those who were abused while using their services would have likely shared knowledge with others as well.

I don't see this as a condemnation of Planned Parenthood - they have other problems you could focus on - and a case against this doctor and his practice would have been long in the making. It is doubtful any one call to police or other authorities would have triggered action but the cumulative effect likely would have and did.
 
Re: Planned Parenthood Knew of Gosnell's Abortion Horrors

Care to put forth your argument rationally for why an unborn child is not human?

Because it doesn't have human DNA? Nope.

Because it doesn't meet the biological definition of life? Nope.

So why is it not a human life?

Technically, if you're going by the definition of life, A ZEF is not alive. In order to be alive it must be able to reproduce or have the ability to reproduce. A zygote has no organs that can be deemed for the use of reproducing. Semantics...but true none the less.
 
still reading thorugh all this but the original post seems like a complete failure for now, but that could change.

Why would PP report about Gosnell without proof?
What would the report say? based on who or what facts?

just curious, im looking for information of what suppossedly PP actually knew.

This weekend i heard some guy i know, not really friends just know is a wife beater. I have no evidence its just a story i was told. Should i report him, assume its true, etc

this is what im getting at.

Now if one of PP's own facilities were in question then yes they should investigate their own facility but not somebody else's .

ill wait to see if i find more or anybody as has more because currently bringing up PP in this case seems illogical.
 
" In order to be alive it must be able to reproduce or have the ability to reproduce."

Does a six month old human have the ability to reproduce?
 
Re: Planned Parenthood Knew of Gosnell's Abortion Horrors

Technically, if you're going by the definition of life, A ZEF is not alive. In order to be alive it must be able to reproduce or have the ability to reproduce. A zygote has no organs that can be deemed for the use of reproducing. Semantics...but true none the less.

That is a terrible interpretation of the Reproduction criteria. If we assume that the immediate ability to procreate is what that criteria means then by your argument no child is alive until puberty.

More to the point, at the moment of conception that one fertilized egg has the potential to split into identical twins, essentially meeting the criteria for reproduction from the moment of fertilization.
 
Re: Planned Parenthood Knew of Gosnell's Abortion Horrors

So under this logic we can charge the NRA and gun dealers with negligence also? Oh yeah, the right does not like their hypocricy pointed out.

lolwut?
 
Re: Planned Parenthood Knew of Gosnell's Abortion Horrors

That is a terrible interpretation of the Reproduction criteria. If we assume that the immediate ability to procreate is what that criteria means then by your argument no child is alive until puberty.

More to the point, at the moment of conception that one fertilized egg has the potential to split into identical twins, essentially meeting the criteria for reproduction from the moment of fertilization.

Actually a newborn has the reproductive organs, which is all thats necessary for the definition of life to apply. I never said that they had to immediately be able to reproduce. Hence the reason that I said "have the ability to reproduce".

And no, splitting into twins does not mean that it is "reproducing". In order to reproduce it has to come from one or more seperate entities creating a second or more entity. Edit: Unless you are contending that an egg is an entity?
 
Last edited:
Re: Planned Parenthood Knew of Gosnell's Abortion Horrors

All definitions of life that rely on function are doomed to exclude non-functional adults from the living.
 
Last edited:
"...Planned Parenthood Southeast Pennsylvania president and CEO Dayle Steinberg admitted this week at a fundraiser that the abortion business knew of the problems at Gosnell’s Philadelphia abortion facility.

Apparently Planned Parenthood did not report it to the state health department or other state or local officials who could have done something about it. Instead, it appears the abortion giant left it up to women Gosnell injured or traumatized to make public officials aware of his House of Horrors." Planned Parenthood Knew of Gosnell's Abortion Horrors | Dr. Kermit Gosnell | Fox Nation

Here is part of what Steinberg said at Planned Parenthood Pennsylvania's Spring Gathering:

“The Gosnell trial has shifted the focus off the high-quality services we provide,” said Dayle Steinberg, the organization’s president and chief executive. “These are criminal, horrendous . . . acts and should be appropriately punished. ...We would always encourage them to report it to the Department of Health." Gosnell worker testifies to seeing baby make swimming motion in toilet « Hot Air

PP was not required to report Gosnell...but why didn't they anyway when they knew what he was doing? Why did they leave it to individual women who had been patients to contact the Dept. of Health?

Suggests collusion to me.

And here's another example of how the moral fascists who want to ban abortion demonstrate the moral "superiority" of their position by lying about Planned Parenthood, which never said it knew what Gosnell was doing.

The moral fascists have no morals or their own.
 
Re: Planned Parenthood Knew of Gosnell's Abortion Horrors

So under this logic we can charge the NRA and gun dealers with negligence also? Oh yeah, the right does not like their hypocricy pointed out.

Planned Parenthood needs to have all subsidies it receives from the Government revoked immediately
 
Re: Planned Parenthood Knew of Gosnell's Abortion Horrors

Planned Parenthood needs to have all subsidies it receives from the Government revoked immediately

their millions of patients would probably disagree with that.
 
Re: Planned Parenthood Knew of Gosnell's Abortion Horrors

Actually a newborn has the reproductive organs, which is all thats necessary for the definition of life to apply. I never said that they had to immediately be able to reproduce. Hence the reason that I said "have the ability to reproduce".

Hah, no. You just made that up. Asexual organisms have no sexual organs... aren't they alive?

Also, even accepting this ridiculous argument creates problems for you: Human genitals begin to form in week 6. Is it alive then?



And no, splitting into twins does not mean that it is "reproducing". In order to reproduce it has to come from one or more seperate entities creating a second or more entity. Edit: Unless you are contending that an egg is an entity?

Yes, I am contending it is an entity since it is easily differentiated from the mother by DNA.
 
The sources for this seem dubious at best, and if I had to put money on it, I'd bet they are taking something completely out of context, but if planned parenthood knew exactly what was going on and didn't report it then they really should fire anyone who knew and didn't report.

But I highly doubt it.

Apparently, Pennsylvania law doesn't require reporting, so it's not a question, I guess, of legality. (Re the larger issue which is a systemic failure of the state's/city's health departments to follow up on inspections and etc., this is a matter of real incompetence.) Should PP have been ethically bound as its employees heard from women what was going on in the Gosnell clinic? Yes.

The primary source of the bit I quoted in the OP from Fox and Hot Air was LifeNews. I can see that for some, this would obviously be suspect. But before I posted the OP, I checked. If you did, then you know that multiple sources have reported on what Steinberg said at the fundraising event. It's quoted. If you think the quotes are made up, offer evidence. Has Steinberg, for example, denied that she said what has been widely quoted? Easy enough to verify, so do it.

If you can't, then please stop shooting the messengers, which include the Wall Street Journal, a legit source whether you share its POV or not.
 
Apparently, Pennsylvania law doesn't require reporting, so it's not a question, I guess, of legality. (Re the larger issue which is a systemic failure of the state's/city's health departments to follow up on inspections and etc., this is a matter of real incompetence.) Should PP have been ethically bound as its employees heard from women what was going on in the Gosnell clinic? Yes.

The primary source of the bit I quoted in the OP from Fox and Hot Air was LifeNews. I can see that for some, this would obviously be suspect. But before I posted the OP, I checked. If you did, then you know that multiple sources have reported on what Steinberg said at the fundraising event. It's quoted. If you think the quotes are made up, offer evidence. Has Steinberg, for example, denied that she said what has been widely quoted? Easy enough to verify, so do it.

If you can't, then please stop shooting the messengers, which include the Wall Street Journal, a legit source whether you share its POV or not.

the question still remains what does PP factually have to do with this?
if they didnt have real evidence they werent obligated to do anything in a case like this especially since it was not their facilities.
Now if they did have evidence then id be 100% on board but that doesnt seem to be the case yet
 
Re: Planned Parenthood Knew of Gosnell's Abortion Horrors

Hah, no. You just made that up. Asexual organisms have no sexual organs... aren't they alive?

Also, even accepting this ridiculous argument creates problems for you: Human genitals begin to form in week 6. Is it alive then?





Yes, I am contending it is an entity since it is easily differentiated from the mother by DNA.

The constitution does not protect "entities". It protects "persons"

A fetus is not a person. It is not protected.

Abortion is legal, and will remain so.

Get over it
 
the question still remains what does PP factually have to do with this?
if they didnt have real evidence they werent obligated to do anything in a case like this especially since it was not their facilities.
Now if they did have evidence then id be 100% on board but that doesnt seem to be the case yet

What were they going to report? "Someone said something bad about Gosnell"???

That's absurd. PP couldn't reveal the name of its' clients (HIPAA) so all they had was hearsay.
 
What were they going to report? "Someone said something bad about Gosnell"???

That's absurd. PP couldn't reveal the name of its' clients (HIPAA) so all they had was hearsay.

thats what i asked in post 34, i dont get it?
 
Re: Planned Parenthood Knew of Gosnell's Abortion Horrors

Technically, if you're going by the definition of life, A ZEF is not alive. In order to be alive it must be able to reproduce or have the ability to reproduce. A zygote has no organs that can be deemed for the use of reproducing. Semantics...but true none the less.

You really need to think harder about this. You're denying quite a few productive, tax paying individuals the designation of being alive.
 
What were they going to report?....

Agent J said:
thats what i asked in post 34, i dont get it?

On that front it's really kind of simple...nota already did the research that it isn't law to report in PA, (I don't think that is proper) but be that the case there is an ethical component to this...If a Doctor at PP, was aware that Gosnell was killing live babies in his clinic then as a physician he has an obligation to report it.

We have laws in this country that if you know of a crime being committed and you don't report it, then you are also guilty of a crime....It's called accessory.
 
Back
Top Bottom