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Planned Parenthood Knew of Gosnell's Abortion Horrors [W:24]

3 weeks ago, planned parenthood testified in florida legislature that babies can be aborted AFTER birth



Video: Planned Parenthood Official Argues for Right to Post-Birth Abortion | The Weekly Standard

some of our lovers of humanity have forgotten their souls

Actually ...
"Planned Parenthood condemns any physician who does not follow the law or endangers a woman's or a child's health, but we don't believe that politicians should be the ones who decide what constitutes the best, medically appropriate treatment in any given situation,"



When one of lawmakers asked her what Planned Parenthood's position would be if a baby is born as a result of a botched abortion.
She said "We believe that any decision that's made should be left up to the woman, her family and the physician,"

That does NOT mean the mom can kill the baby... It only means the mother,and her family along with the doctor can decide if extraordinary measures should be done to save the baby's life.


Since the partial birth abortion ban there will never be a baby that will survive a legal abortion since the fetus is dead and in pieces before it is removed from the womb.

Even so the Born Alive law is still on the books.

From Wiki:
The Born-Alive Infants Protection Act of 2002 ("BAIPA" Pub.L. 107–207, 116 Stat. 926, enacted August 5, 2002, 1 U.S.C. § 8) is an Act of Congress. It extends legal protection to an infant born alive after a failed attempt at induced abortion. It was signed by President George W. Bush, a Republican.
Born-Alive Infants Protection Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Apparently either the Florida legislators did not know about the 'Born Alive" act or they did not know that because of the partial birth abortion ban there would be no infant to save after a legal abortion , or they were just hoping to get in the news so pro life people would vote for them the next time they ran for office.
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Planned Parenthood cilinics do NOT perform late term abortions in Florida or any other state.

Perhaps the ultimate irony of the right-wing’s imagined controversy is that —
even in states where it’s not against the law to perform late-term induced abortions — Planned Parenthood clinics don’t provide that type of service. Many Planned Parenthood affiliates only perform abortions in the first trimester of pregnancy, when women can either take a pill or have a less-invasive surgical procedure.

How The Right Wing Manufactured A Fake Controversy Over Planned Parenthood's 'Infanticide' | ThinkProgress
 
It's not the womans body. It's an independent biological entity that is of the human species. It's a human life separate from the life of the mother (or father). It's an individual life.

Just so that we are being factual, the fetus does process food on its own. It's provided with nutrients, even at the level of a zygote the cell performs its own metabolism. I also don't see why breathing air is relevant either. It's in an airless environment while the organs required to breathe air are developing.

By all rational an biological accounts the ZEF is a human life at every stage. That's just fact. Now, if we want to get to subjective definitions of "person-hood" and somehow use that to rationalize why it's acceptable to kill a human life we could go there.

I disagree.

Before viability the embryo or early fetus is completely dependent on the pregnant woman.
It is not only dependent on the woman but it will not survive apart from the woman ...it cannot become a separate entity because it is the woman's life functions not its own that allows it to continue to delvelope toward viability.

It is using her life's forces and her body.
Until it becomes viable it cannot survive outside her body.
If she dies it will not survive even if doctors quickly remove it and give it artificial aid.
A non viable fetus is not separate entity with its own life it cannot live apart from her.
It depends completely on the bio mom.

Once a fetus is viable if the pregnant woman dies doctors can quickly remove the viable infant and it has a good chance of living even without the bio mom.


A nurse, a father, a grandparent, an adoptive parent , or another care taker can care for and fed the infant.
 
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Once again, you've done a 180
Your arguments are so inane that even you wont stick by them

Did you not say that morals are "subjective" and that the law shouldn't enforce morals?

Yes or no??
 
Re: Planned Parenthood Knew of Gosnell's Abortion Horrors

Most of the world agrees that sex with children is wrong. That doesn't make it objectively true, just as believing that the world was flat didn't mean that was objectively true.

So if Gosnell had sex with these babies before he murdered them you wouldn't find that objectively wrong?

I suppose that once morals are out of the way, subjective or objective, anything becomes possible.
 
When one of lawmakers asked her what Planned Parenthood's position would be if a baby is born as a result of a botched abortion.
She said "We believe that any decision that's made should be left up to the woman, her family and the physician,"

That does NOT mean the mom can kill the baby... It only means the mother,and her family along with the doctor can decide if extraordinary measures should be done to save the baby's life.

Ad these "extraordinary measures" (another euphemism!) would involve killing the baby, correct? We now have a thumbs up/thumbs down committee vote on whether an innocent human being should die.
 
Women beg to differ.

Beg all you want, reality doesn't change.

As it's dependent on another independent being, this is untrue.

Babies are dependent on their parents for nourishment. Hell, anyone who doesn't have a job is dependent for nourishment. Doesn't change the fact that it IS an independent and distinct organism.

Biologically untrue.

Biological fact.
 
Ad these "extraordinary measures" (another euphemism!) would involve killing the baby, correct? We now have a thumbs up/thumbs down committee vote on whether an innocent human being should die.

No it it would not since we have a federal law that would not allow that ...the Born Alive Act.

I specifically put that in my post.

Women who have legal abortions after viability do so because of extrene cases.

Here is a little info about legal late term abortions.

Since the death of Dr. Tiller a few years ago there are only 4 doctors in the USA who legally perform third trimester abortions.

Less than .08 percent of all legal abortions that occur in the USA take place at or after 24 weeks gestation.
These are the extreme cases. The cases where the woman's life or irreparable to major bodily function would take place if the pregnancy were allowed to continue ,when the fetus died a natural death in the womb but failed to expelled naturally, ( yes, when a doctor removes a dead fetus and the fetal material from the womb it is still called an abortion and it is included in the abortion stat numbers ), when a fetus will be stillborn or when the fetus will only live a few minutes or hours.

Kansas was one of only a small handful of states that allowed legal late term abortions back in 2008.
Dr. Tiller was one of 5 doctors who performed late term abortions at that time.
Out of state OB/GYNs who had patients with the late term extreme complications that I mentioned would often send their patients to Dr. Tiller for their late term abortions.

Kansas recorded the numbers of abortions that took place after 22 weeks gestion in 2008.

There were 323 abortions that took place at or after 22 weeks gestation (40 weeks gestation is considered full term).

192 of those abortions was because the fetus was NOT viable.
It had died in the womb , it would be stillborn, or it was so malformed it would live only a few minutes or hours.
They were not viaible and never had a chance of living.

The other 132 late term (22 weeks gestation or later ) abortions were because there would be irreparable damage to a major bodily function if the pregnancy continued.
 
Re: Planned Parenthood Knew of Gosnell's Abortion Horrors

Newborns are not independently living 'creatures' either. Without proper care they die. So at what point is it appropriate to stop killing babies that cannot support themselves?

A born human is a sentient being with a mind plus part of the social fabric which the unborn have none of those when they're aborted 99% of the time

Let's not forget also that most humans don't care for things until they become part of the social fabric. Think for a bit ''Why are non human animals given more consideration then the unborn''? The answer is not hard really
 
Re: Planned Parenthood Knew of Gosnell's Abortion Horrors

IN THE NEWS...
April 22, 2013

The defense of controversial abortion Dr. Kermitt Gosnell gets underway in Phialdelphia this week, but he cannot expect any support from some of the country's most pro abortion rights advocacy organizations who "unequivocally denounced" his practice.

Leaders from Pro-Choice America, Planned Parenthood and the National Abortion Federation said that Gosnell's abortion clinic was an affront to high-quality, safe abortion clinics who operate under proper regulations across the country.

Gosnell's attorneys were supposed to begin their defense today but it was postponed until Tuesday due to illness on the defense team. The trial is entering its sixth week of testimony in the high-profile trial, which could result in the death penalty for Gosnell.

Abortion Doctor Kermit Gosnell Condemned by Pro-Abortion Rights Groups - ABC News
 
Re: Planned Parenthood Knew of Gosnell's Abortion Horrors

Oh, the monsters among us!

My 26 year old cousin isn't an independent living creature, either. He's sponging off of my Aunt. Can I kill him?

:lol: No you can't kill him because he is a sentient being with a mind plus most importantly capable of comprehending a future of some sort and has put direct value on his own existence

99% of the time when the unborn are killed they have none of the characteristics I told you. Until something is part of our social fabric which your 26 year old cousin obviously is part of human typically don't care for it.

Think why for example non human animals are giving more consideration most of the time then the unborn.
 
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No it it would not since we have a federal law that would not allow that ...the Born Alive Act.

Then what is this "extraordinary measures" meeting all about? The law is obviously being ignored, even when people are being told the law is being ignored. It seems that abortionists are very keen to maintain their good reputation.

Dr. Tiller was one of 5 doctors who performed late term abortions at that time.

Those "late term abortions" involved murdering babies after they were born. They 'snipped" the babies necks.

Perhaps Dr.Gosnell and has staff had meetings regarding "extraordinary measures" also. That may be his defense for killing these babies, if there is such a defense.
 
Re: Planned Parenthood Knew of Gosnell's Abortion Horrors

The taking of an innocent human life is generally referred to as murder, although some prefer euphemisms.

Actually killing a innocent human is not murder at all

Killing a innocent person is murder which in that definition currently only includes born humans and will in the future include extraterrestrial life, human made biological life, and artificial life
 
Re: Planned Parenthood Knew of Gosnell's Abortion Horrors

The taking of an innocent life is pretty much universally condemned. Or at least that used to be the case.

Be more specific

We take innocent life on a daily basis unless you think the world revolves only around humans of course
 
Then what is this "extraordinary measures" meeting all about? The law is obviously being ignored, even when people are being told the law is being ignored. It seems that abortionists are very keen to maintain their good reputation.



Those "late term abortions" involved murdering babies after they were born. They 'snipped" the babies necks.

Perhaps Dr.Gosnell and has staff had meetings regarding "extraordinary measures" also. That may be his defense for killing these babies, if there is such a defense.

From what I have read about the tesimony in the trial I believe Kermit Gosnell not only broke the law when he preformed abortion on women with viable fetuses but that he murdered any babies that were born .

I think he should pay with his life for that if true.

Hopefully he gets the death sentence or they at lock him up


The Born Alive law requires that medical help be given for any infant born alive.
Tht means if they were a wanted baby who was born
very early or if they survived an abortion attempt.

Extraordinary measures means open heart surgery, surgery to put organs that are on the outside of body back inside the body , the use of infant cpap machines, etc.
 
From what I have read about the tesimony in the trial I believe Kermit Gosnell not only broke the law when he preformed abortion on women with viable fetuses but that he murdered any babies that were born .

I think he should pay with his life for that if true.

Hopefully he gets the death sentence or they at lock him up


The Born Alive law requires that medical help be given for any infant born alive.
Tht means if they were a wanted baby who was born
very early or if they survived an abortion attempt.

Extraordinary measures means open heart surgery, surgery to put organs that are on the outside of body back inside the body , the use of infant cpap machines, etc.

And it also means taking the babies life.
 
In Preemies, Better Care Also Means Hard Choice

Saving lives this young is not benign. Survivors of extreme prematurity have frequent, and often severe, complications during their time in the NICU.

In the worst cases, these children will suffer lifelong disabilities: cerebral palsy; severe visual impairment that thick glasses and eye surgery can only partly correct; scarred lungs that will leave them reliant on oxygen tanks; intellectual and behavioral problems that put them well behind their peers.


Partly because prospects for these children can be so dark, the American Academy of Pediatrics suggests not resuscitating babies born before 23 weeks,
while babies born after 26 weeks are usually resuscitated.

Between 23 and 26 weeks, the risks remain high but survival improves with each week. This range is treated by the pediatrics organization as a gray zone, and doctors and parents must make the hard decision about whether to try to resuscitate a baby without firm guidance.

The circumstances are rarely ideal. Neonatologists walk into a patient’s room, day or night, amid the intense activity of obstetricians and nurses trying to manage labor. It’s an emotional, tense and uncertain time not conducive to detailed discussion or reflection. Unsurprisingly, then, these life-or-death decisions are made inconsistently.

Read more:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/14/h...re-babies-also-means-harder-choices.html?_r=0
 
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Re: Planned Parenthood Knew of Gosnell's Abortion Horrors

Be more specific

We take innocent life on a daily basis unless you think the world revolves only around humans of course

The thread is about human beings. There need not be any confusion in this regard.
 
And it also means taking the babies life.
No it does not mean taking the babies life.
If a baby is born with severe life threatening conditions and will not survive more than a few minutes or hours the kindest thing to do is to give it comfort care for the few minutes or hours it has instead of inserting
all kinds of machines that might or might not give it
a few minutes or hours more.

Those babies are kelp warm, are held, and are kept pain free until they expire naturally.
 
1. I get so tired of the "they can't live on their own so they aren't really people" crap.

2. A day old baby can't live on his own.
3. A 3-month old baby can't live on his own.
4. A 2 year old can't live on his own.
5. A 10 year old can't live on his own.

6.Heck - many adults can't live without sucking the teat of the government everyday.

1. I get tried of the Anthropocentrism pro lifers show on a daily basis. Let's look at the characteristics these beings have

2. A one day old baby is a sentient being with a mind (neurologically active) and is part of our social fabric meaning that we can interact with and develop a relationship with this being thus it has the right to life

3. A 3 month old baby is a sentient being with a mind and is part of the social fabric thus it has the right to life

4. A two year old is a sentient being with a mind and is part of the social fabric thus it has the right to life

5. A 10 year old is a sentient being with a mind plus is part of our social fabric. This being is capable of comprehending what life is and is capable of deciding what it might want to do with a life of some sort thus this being has put direct value on it's own existence thus it seriously has the right to life

6. Read number 5

The unborn 99% percent of the time when they're aborted are not sentient with a mind
 
The unborn 99% percent of the time when they're aborted are not sentient with a mind
Which is of course why one of the selected means of killing the unborn baby is to plunge scissors into the brain of the infant.
 
1. I get tried of the Anthropocentrism pro lifers show on a daily basis. Let's look at the characteristics these beings have

2. A one day old baby is a sentient being...

A neonate is an inefficient engine that converts milk to poop. At birth, we possess less awareness of understanding of our surroundings than the creature that provided my breakfast meat. And yet, a neonate's rights human rights are protected.


Granted, you have already stated that infanticide should be legal. Based upon that, I suppose I'm in part preaching to the choir, though you take this data and go to a completely different - in my opinion terrible - direction.
 
Which is of course why one of the selected means of killing the unborn baby is to plunge scissors into the brain of the infant.

I think you are mistaken ...the babies Gonell is accused of murdering were born babies not unborn.
 
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