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Thread: Planned Parenthood Knew of Gosnell's Abortion Horrors [W:24]

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    Re: Planned Parenthood Knew of Gosnell's Abortion Horrors

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    with the collusion shown by the medical community in working to protect Gosnell, I am figuring the designation as life threatening might be more questionable than you suggest
    As far as I can tell no one in medical community is in collusion to protect Gosnell or anyone else who murders born alive infants.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    Re: Planned Parenthood Knew of Gosnell's Abortion Horrors

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    That stat is not nonsense.
    That stat is about legal abortions.
    This is what you said:
    Only .08 percent of all legal abortions that place in the USA are after the limit of viability. They are the extreme cases and I personally feel that abortions that take place because of those extreme cases are very moral.
    Was Gosnell's abortions illegal? If so, why didn't PP report him after the complaints? Why were there no inspections if what he was doing was illegal?

    The fact is that Gosnell's stats have to be included in your stat. And we know also that other late term abortionists are murdering live and breathing babies. Are they included in your .08 stat? Who is involved in that .08 figure you use?

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    Re: Planned Parenthood Knew of Gosnell's Abortion Horrors

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    As far as I can tell no one in medical community is in collusion to protect Gosnell or anyone else who murders born alive infants.
    Well, besides the material about the oversight agency completely ignoring reports of death, there is also extensive information in the GJR discussing how doctors didn't report abortion injuries and related deaths

    Pennsylvania’s Abortion Control Act requires any doctor who treats a woman
    because of a complication arising from an abortion to make a report to DOH. Willful
    failure to do so constitutes “unprofessional conduct” and subjects the treating doctor to
    sanctions by the Board of Medicine. Clearly, this law is being violated, if not willfully, at
    least consistently.
    We learned of at least five of Gosnell’s patients who were treated for serious
    complications at the Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania (HUP) or Presbyterian
    Hospital, the two closest emergency rooms to the Women’s Medical Society clinic. We
    heard evidence of many more women, whose names we did not learn, who also had to
    seek emergency care after undergoing abortions at Gosnell’s facility. Yet we received no
    complication reports when we subpoenaed documents from DOH.
    The attorney representing HUP doctors before the Grand Jury was able to
    produce only one confirmed report ever made (which raises the question why DOH did
    not turn over this report). That one report was for Semika Shaw, who died at the hospital
    in March 2000. Documents turned over to the Grand Jury show that, following Shaw’s
    death, another hospital attorney, Mary Ellen Nepps, distributed a memo to doctors at
    HUP and Pennsylvania Hospital. The memo reminded the physicians, “in light of some
    recent reports of abortion complications and maternal deaths,” that they were responsible
    for filing reports with DOH in such cases.

    Yet, when Karnamaya Mongar died at HUP nine years later, no report was made.
    Nor did the Grand Jury receive evidence of reports made, other than in Shaw’s case, for
    any of the serious complications that other patients of Gosnell suffered. Dana Haynes
    went straight to the HUP emergency room from Gosnell’s clinic with a perforated cervix
    and bowel and most of a fetus still in her uterus. She required surgery and was
    hospitalized for five days....

    ...The issue, however, goes beyond simple compliance with the Abortion Control
    Act’s reporting requirement. Based on the evidence we heard regarding state officials’
    procedures and practices, it is doubtful that reporting under that act would actually have
    triggered any kind of action from the state. Staloski, the DOH director in charge ofabortion facilities, told us that she did not even get – or ask for – complication reports. It
    seems that they were treated as statistical information rather than as a means to uncover
    problem facilities.
    I find it rather amazing abortion advocates are refusing to acknowledge the problems here and keep making claims about Gosnell being the product of too much regulation. When it's clear the exact opposite is true

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    Re: Planned Parenthood Knew of Gosnell's Abortion Horrors

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Was Gosnell's abortions illegal? If so, why didn't PP report him after the complaints? Why were there no inspections if what he was doing was illegal?
    there was an attitude in within the state oversight agency and government that basically endorsed the idea that regulating abortion facilities would act as a deterrent against abortion. Also, within such a context, it would be hard to trust the figures reported in the absence of oversight

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    Re: Planned Parenthood Knew of Gosnell's Abortion Horrors

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    That stat is not nonsense.
    That stat is about legal abortions.
    the reason it's questionable is that what gosnell was doing was likely reported as legal abortions. he's not going to pen a report saying "I committed illegal acts", he's going to report it as a legal one. And without any real oversight, there is no means to audit such information

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    Re: Planned Parenthood Knew of Gosnell's Abortion Horrors

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    there was an attitude in within the state oversight agency and government that basically endorsed the idea that regulating abortion facilities would act as a deterrent against abortion. Also, within such a context, it would be hard to trust the figures reported in the absence of oversight
    Yes, that's true and it's proving very difficult for many to accept. You can see how fearful they are on this thread, as well as in many other media, that the threat to easy abortion is their first interest. If I was strongly pro abortion, or pro choice, I might feel the same way.

    But there are also limits that we should place on ourselves and those we find in the same political bed. When a woman had been murdered, and many babies as well, it is not the best time to proclaim our pro abortion views.

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    Re: Planned Parenthood Knew of Gosnell's Abortion Horrors

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    the reason it's questionable is that what gosnell was doing was likely reported as legal abortions. he's not going to pen a report saying "I committed illegal acts", he's going to report it as a legal one. And without any real oversight, there is no means to audit such information
    According to the grand jury investigation he took the records of the women he performed illegal acts on and hid them in his home. It seems he did not report them at all.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    Re: Planned Parenthood Knew of Gosnell's Abortion Horrors

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    According to the grand jury investigation he took the records of the women he performed illegal acts on and hid them in his home. It seems he did not report them at all.
    There was one small problem. The law requires a measurement of gestational
    age, usually done by an ultrasound. The ultrasound film would leave documentary proof
    that the abortion was illegal. Gosnell’s solution was simply to fudge the measurement
    process. Instead of hiring proper ultrasound technicians, he “trained” the staff himself,
    showing them how to aim the ultrasound probe at an angle to make the fetus look
    smaller. If one of his workers nonetheless recorded an ultrasound measurement that was
    too big, it would just be redone. Invariably these second ultrasounds would come in
    lower. In fact, almost every time a second ultrasound was taken, the gestational age
    would be recorded as precisely 24.5 weeks – slightly past the statutory cutoff.
    Apparently Gosnell thought he would get away with abortions that were just a little
    illegal. In reality, of course, most of these pregnancies were considerably more
    advanced.
    Again, I am simply amazed at some of you so blatantly trying to distort what happened at this facility

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    Re: Planned Parenthood Knew of Gosnell's Abortion Horrors

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    Only .08 percent of all legal abortions that place in the USA are after the limit of viability. They are the extreme cases and I personally feel that abortions that take place because of those extreme cases are very moral.

    They are the cases where the woman's life or irreparable damage to a major bodily function would take if the pregnancy continued, where the fetus died a natural death in the womb, would be stillborn, or is so malformed it would only live a few minutes or hours.
    So you would find the late-term killing of a child who wasn't fatally malformed or threatening the mothers life to be equally morally abhorrent as the killing of the same child ten minutes later when he was located a few inches away?

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    Re: Planned Parenthood Knew of Gosnell's Abortion Horrors

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    So you would find the late-term killing of a child who wasn't fatally malformed or threatening the mothers life to be equally morally abhorrent as the killing of the same child ten minutes later when he was located a few inches away?
    I find one greatly more illegal than the other. The comparative morality is irrelevant as far as the law is concerned.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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