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Thread: Planned Parenthood Knew of Gosnell's Abortion Horrors [W:24]

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    Re: Planned Parenthood Knew of Gosnell's Abortion Horrors [W:24]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    If their patients were not patients of Gosnells any longer, then it would do nothing to protect PP's patients to report Gosnell.
    I just outlined how it would protect their patients on a community level

    I ask, you won't say what these reports were specifically about.
    because I don't know the specifics of the complaints, only that they were serious enough that PP staff felt they warranted reporting to the health department

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    Re: Planned Parenthood Knew of Gosnell's Abortion Horrors [W:24]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    I just outlined how it would protect their patients on a community level



    because I don't know the specifics of the complaints, only that they were serious enough that PP staff felt they warranted reporting to the health department
    Protect patients on a community level = public health. That's not what you were talking about before. At least, it's not what you said

    And encouraging people to report fulfills that obligation

    And because we don't know the specifics, it's ridiculous to make any conclusions as to their obligation to report.
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    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Planned Parenthood Knew of Gosnell's Abortion Horrors [W:24]

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    yes we have covered this fact that they admitted to problems which they identified as woman complaints and that they told the woman if they have complaints they should make them to the proper authorities


    are you implying something else?
    Okay, we both understand that PP knew of these "problem" and "complaints", as you call them.

    This article, from the indictment, lists those "problems" and "complaints". If you don't yet understand what those "problems" and "complaints" were, read the article slowly and carefully and you'll see why they call it "The Shop Of Horrors." PP should be charged as an accessory.

    Doctor Kermit Gosnell's little shop of horrors - Patrick D Hahn - Open Salon

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    Re: Planned Parenthood Knew of Gosnell's Abortion Horrors [W:24]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Protect patients on a community level = public health. That's not what you were talking about before. At least, it's not what you said

    And encouraging people to report fulfills that obligation

    No it doesn't. You don't get excused from reporting a crime because you assumed someone else would.

    Planned Parenthood didn't report Gosnell because they knew that the truth would be damaging to their cause.

    They were OK with letting it happen because, in the end, they dehumanized the victims anyway.

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    Re: Planned Parenthood Knew of Gosnell's Abortion Horrors

    Quote Originally Posted by GEIxBattleRifle View Post
    Nope the fetus does not become truly neurologically active until the 22 week of pregnancy.
    Who told you this? Dr. Gosnell?

    By the end of the first trimester all the major elements of the brain are present and active. The fetus looks like a tiny baby, which is what is being killed in an abortion.

    This activity is only a generative one, the spontaneous nerve pulses could merely be autonomous or spontaneous reflexes aimed at stimulating and developing muscle and organ tissue.
    Sorry, but this is so much pseudoscientific handwaving and unwarranted speculation.

    Abortion is meant to get rid of the undesirables that's a cold fact and is not rationalizing I am merely telling you straight up how we roll
    Kudos for having a clear eyed view of baby killing, at least. So many advocates for "choice" won't see it for what it is, or won't admit to it. One wonders if they really know what they are supporting.

    99.9% of the time when they're aborted they have no minds. About 47 million abortion worldwide a year are performed it's horrible in the eyes of the pro lifers and watch helplessly as there precious fetuses they want to roam the planet are being replaced on a daily basis. The unborn are replaceable that's the cold truth no rationalizing there
    But you need to take one additional step toward being clear eyed about this and accept the fact that we are killing sentient beings with minds of their own. There is simply no credible basis for saying otherwise. If they are replaceable then so you we, so are you, and there is no basis for saying that we are worth any more than they are. "Progress" in our society is such that by the time we are long in tooth the young and productive people will be able to have us put down whether we like it or not, and there will be some justice to that.

    I don't care about liberals getting abortions.
    Good! Do carry on.

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    Re: Planned Parenthood Knew of Gosnell's Abortion Horrors

    I have searched high and low, and for the life of me, can not find any statute that compels PP, or any other medical doctor, or facility to report another to oversight agencies like DHEC. In my view it is deplorable, and a loophole that threatens public safety.

    Another bloggers opinion that I agree with says

    "Planned Parenthood had an obligation to report what they heard about the Gosnell clinic just like any person, priest, law enforcement, counselor, or doctor has an obligation to report things they hear that endanger lives. The fact that they use the defense that they “encouraged women to report what they saw to the health department” and that the health department ignored the reports shows the utter disregard for human life if it poses a threat to women’s rights to get rid of the inconvenient."

    Me & My Big Mouth | Opinions are my own and you may not like them.

    In this society a person has what is called an "affirmative obligation" to report known crimes that have been committed or are going to be committed. It is the same law that governs Emergency Rooms to report suspected abuse when you take your 8 year old in for a fractured arm let's say, and they notice other injuries that lead them to suspect abuse. Or, the same law that dictates that if you know a murder has taken place and you say nothing, you can be charged as an accessory.

    More than a few on this board seem to want to ignore what is ethical, because it interferes with their view of abortion on demand regardless of gestation of the fetus. Obama is in this category considering that while a state Senator in IL, he voted 3 times against bills that would protect the life of babies born alive from botched abortions. This is a disregard for life so callous that one can only imagine the thought process of those that argue that even babies up to 1 year old could be killed.

    Gosnell's clinic presented a danger to public health safety, so it is important to say that it isn't only the PP facility, and workers that knew of the conditions of that clinic whom are at fault, but also the state regulatory, and enforcement agency that so obviously didn't do their job in inspecting this place.

    With that said, the trial should be wrapping up and we should know Gosnell's fate next week some time, I hope he get's the needle. He is a waste of human flesh. There are some notes though that are disheartening to this case such as what Philly Inquirer reported earlier this week....

    After hearing impassioned arguments from attorneys on both sides of the Kermit Gosnell capital-murder trial Tuesday, a Philadelphia judge threw out three of the seven first-degree murder charges Gosnell faced for allegedly killing fetuses born alive at his abortion clinic.

    Common Pleas Judge Jeffrey Minehart also tossed out all five counts against Gosnell accusing him of corpse abuse for storing the feet of aborted fetuses in plastic containers in his now closed Women's Medical Society clinic.

    Also dismissed by Minehart was one count of infanticide - the intentional killing of an infant. All other counts against Gosnell, 72, will be decided by the jury, the judge ruled.

    In addition to counts of first-degree murder for killing four babies allegedly born alive, those charges include the third-degree murder of a patient who died of a drug overdose following a botched 2009 abortion and multiple counts of preforming illegal, late-term abortions.

    Minehart also dismissed six of the nine counts of theft by deception against Gosnell co-defendant Eileen O'Neill, whom prosecutors contend worked at the clinic as a doctor despite that having a medical license.

    Minehart made his rulings following motion hearings that took place before the start of the defense attorneys starting their cases Tuesday afternoon.

    Gosnell's attorney, Jack McMahon, argued that all seven counts regarding the fetuses should be dismissed. None were born alive, he said, all having been injected with death-causing drugs during the abortion process. Assistant District Attorney Edward Cameron argued that there had been enough testimony from former clinic employees that the seven babies were born alive to let the jury decide.

    Judge tosses three murder counts against Kermit Gosnell - Philly.com
    There were reports of a hoodie wearing woman in the court room that day wearing a shirt that read "Social Justice begins in the womb".... How sick is that?
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    Re: Planned Parenthood Knew of Gosnell's Abortion Horrors [W:24]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Protect patients on a community level = public health. That's not what you were talking about before. At least, it's not what you said

    And encouraging people to report fulfills that obligation

    And because we don't know the specifics, it's ridiculous to make any conclusions as to their obligation to report.
    Actually 'the specifics' are quite clear. There was blood all over the place, babies feet were being stored in jars, put in toilets, at least one woman died, others became deathly ill, venereal diseases were being spread from patient to patient and perhaps hundreds of viable babies were murdered. Had you read what was going on there you might not be so dismissive of 'the problems' or 'the complaints'.

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    Re: Planned Parenthood Knew of Gosnell's Abortion Horrors [W:24]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Protect patients on a community level = public health. That's not what you were talking about before. At least, it's not what you said

    And encouraging people to report fulfills that obligation

    And because we don't know the specifics, it's ridiculous to make any conclusions as to their obligation to report.
    Exactly.

    It seems that many complaints about Gosnells clinc were made over the years and yet authorities ignored them.

    Some <SNIPs> From the following article:

    . There were several oversight agencies
    that stumbled upon and should have shut down Kermit Gosnell long ago. But none of them did...

    The first line of defense was the Pennsylvania Department of Health. The department's job is to audit hospitals and outpatient medical facilities, like Gosnell's, to make sure that they follow the rules and provide safe care. The department had contact with the Women's Medical Society dating back to 1979, when it first issued approval to open an abortion clinic. It did not conduct another site review until 1989, ten years later. Numerous violations were already apparent, but Gosnell got a pass when he promised to fix them. Site reviews in 1992 and 1993 also noted various violations, but again failed to ensure they were corrected.

    But at least the department had been doing something up to that point, however ineffectual. After 1993, even that pro form a effort came to an end. Not because of administrative ennui, although there had been plenty.

    <SNIP>


    Except that there were complaints about Gosnell, repeatedly.Several different attorneys, representing women injured by Gosnell, contacted the department. A doctor from Children's Hospital of Philadelphia hand-delivered a complaint, advising the department that numerous patients he had referred for abortions came back from Gosnell with the same venereal disease. The medical examiner of Delaware County informed the department that Gosnell had performed an illegal abortion on a 14-year-old girl carrying a 30-week-old baby. And the department received official notice that a woman named Karnamaya Mongar had died at Gosnell's hands.

    not one of these alarm bells --t even Mrs. Mongar's death -- prompted the department to look at Gosnell or the Women's Medical Society... even this total abdication by the Department of Health might not have been fatal. Another agency with authority in the health field, the Pennsylvania Department of State, could have stopped Gosnell single-handedly.

    <SNIP>

    The department assigned an investigator, whose investigation consisted primarily of an offsite interview with Gosnell. The investigator never inspected the facility, questioned other employees, or reviewed any records. Department attorneys chose to accept this incomplete investigation, and dismissed the complaint as unconfirmed.

    Shortly thereafter the department received an even more disturbing report -- about a woman, years before Karnamaya Mongar, who died of sepsis after Gosnell perforated her uterus. The woman was 22 years old. A civil suit against Gosnell was settled for almost a million dollars, and the insurance company forwarded the information to the department. That report should have been all the confirmation needed for the complaint from the former employee that was already in the department's possession.stead, the department attorneys dismissed this complaint too... The same thing happened at least twice more: the department received complaints about lawsuits against Gosnell, but dismissed them as meaningless...

    <SNIP>
    Another employee inspected the clinic in response to a complaint that dead fetuses were being stored in paper bags in the employees' lunch refrigerator. The inspection confirmed numerous violations... no follow-up was ever done...

    <SNIP>
    Why Dr. Kermit Gosnell's Trial Should Be a Front-Page Story - Conor Friedersdorf - The Atlantic
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    Re: Planned Parenthood Knew of Gosnell's Abortion Horrors [W:24]

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    Exactly.

    It seems that many complaints about Gosnells clinc were made over the years and yet authorities ignored them.

    I agree, but why is that? If one is to accept the new normal of heavy regulation in every aspect of society, why not here? Or was that ok because it was a sacred cow?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Planned Parenthood Knew of Gosnell's Abortion Horrors

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    ...

    By the end of the first trimester all the major elements of the brain are present and active. The fetus looks like a tiny baby, which is what is being killed in an abortion. ...

    Before about 26 weeks gestation
    the fetal neural structure is about as sophisticated as that of a sea slug and its EEG as flat and unorganized as that of someone brain-dead.
    The Consciousness Meter: Sure You Want That? | Wired Science | Wired.com
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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