• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Baby Abortion Survivor Was "Swimming" In Toilet "Trying To Get Out"

How do you know? We can certainly hope these aren't other "Houses of Horrors" around but there will certainly have to be some investigations, rather than waiting 17 years.

Platinum donation wager? Here, I'll make it easier for you. If in 1 month's time, we find that similar situations are taking place in 6% of abortion clinics (according to CPwill, that's 108 clinics), I'll give a platinum donation in your name to DP. If it's not, you can do the same in my name. Deal?
 
The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence runs strongly in your post. Keep at her nota, maybe if you wish hard enough you'll find 100 similar abortion clinics. I'll put money on this matter though. You willing to wage a platinum donation over your possition?

You're citing the current lack of evidence as proof that this is an isolated incident, despite the collusion to ignore the issue among the medical and regulatory communities. So let's not act as if your position actually had any intellectual merit
 
Last edited:
Funny. I did a search function on the Constitution and didn't see "abortion" in there anywhere.

I did come across the part where it talked about not being deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law. It was, as I recall, against it.

It only protects the lives or persons. A fetus is not a person


Reminds me of a case I read about back in the late 19th Century. A man was let off for murder on the argument that the law only forbade the killing of a man; it said nothing about whether or not one was allowed to kill a chinaman. A Chinaman, you see, like a nigger, or a fetus, is not a real person, and therefore killing them? Not against the law.

The linguistics are the same - find a different name, insist that the individual in question isn't a real "person" (You know - not like "you and I" are "real persons"), and then use that to justify its abuse.

Don't care what it reminds you of. The constitution protects the life of persons. A fetus is not a person
 
You're citing the current lack of evidence as proof that this is an isolated incident, despite the collusion to ignore the issue among the medical and regulatory communities. So let's not act as if your position actually had any intellectual merit

Because the last time we made a major policy decision on the basis of "the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" it worked out just fine and dandy! :roll:

And it is a lie to claim Hatuey is citing that as proof of anything
 
Platinum donation wager? Here, I'll make it easier for you. If in 1 month's time, we find that similar situations are taking place in 6% of abortion clinics (according to CPwill, that's 108 clinics), I'll give a platinum donation in your name to DP. If it's not, you can do the same in my name. Deal?

Nah. Twice I've had wagers with leftists on political forums, won both times, and they never paid.

In fact with the way the MSM and abortion groups try to cover things up it would be very difficult to get the information anyway.

But I take your point the abortionists and their supporters are basically good and honest people. determined to maintain as much cleanliness as possible during their work. It's next to Godliness, right?
 
You're citing the current lack of evidence as proof that this is an isolated incident, despite the collusion to ignore the issue among the medical and regulatory communities. So let's not act as if your position actually had any intellectual merit

Hm, lack of evidence? You mean not a single group pro-life or pro-choice keeping track of abortion clinics with similar issues? Not a single group even keeping track of news reports with such clinics? That's not a lack of evidence. That's a giant hole in the case that this incredibly particular case constitutes anything more than an anomaly. As I said, put up the evidence, or shhh.

Dr. Chuckles, are you willing to put money where your mouth is? I'll bet a platinum donation that nothing substancial comes of this and the only case with anything resembling "swimming" fetuses in the sink is this one. Health slip ups? Sure. Even private hospitals have them. Abortion providers engaging in the same practices as Gosnell? Less than 0.5% of the entire abortion provider demographic. Let's go. I feel like making false outrage groupies look bad.
 
Nah. Twice I've had wagers with leftists on political forums, won both times, and they never paid.

In fact with the way the MSM and abortion groups try to cover things up it would be very difficult to get the information anyway.

But I take your point the abortionists and their supporters are basically good and honest people. determined to maintain as much cleanliness as possible during their work. It's next to Godliness, right?

Ah, so you're not willing to stand behind your bull****. Kk Grant, good to know you don't have the conviction or honesty to put your money where your mouth is. Now buzz off. You're flooding the thread's bandwidth with your emotional nonsense.
 
Ah, so you're not willing to stand behind your bull****. Kk Grant, good to know you don't have the conviction or honesty to put your money where your mouth is. Now buzz off. You're flooding the thread's bandwidth with your emotional nonsense.

What BS and emotional nonsense are you referring to?

Actually I'm as cool as the other side of the pillow.
 
What BS and emotional nonsense are you referring to?

Actually I'm as cool as the other side of the pillow.

A typical Nazi rationalization. This holocaust in not fictional at all. Many Muslims and left wingers still deny the Jewish Holocaust, and I see the same thing happening here.

It is not my definition. Gosnell murdered enough babies that he has been charged with three counts of murder. It is suspected that he may be the worst serial killer in American history. He is not being charged with performing an abortion.

Yeah, Tiller the baby killer. It seems Gosnell falls into the same category, and who knows how many more are out there?

Then why ask the question when this thread is about the "House of Horrors" and babies in the toilet?

Nazis, serial killers, holocausts and abortion providers. That's how your contribution to this thread can be summarized.

You're emotional.

Now put your money where your mouth is, why won't ya?
 
Hm, lack of evidence? You mean not a single group pro-life or pro-choice keeping track of abortion clinics with similar issues?

you're asserting that such groups would find out other Gosnell's when we have direct evidence that it didn't root out gosnell.


That's not a lack of evidence.

Yes it is, when the oversight system, you're citing as proof clearly didn't work. And not only didn't work, but colluded to protect such activities, despite failed inspections, numerous complaints, and a legacy of procedure related injury and death




Not a single group even keeping track of news reports with such clinics? That's not a lack of evidence. That's a giant hole in the case that this incredibly particular case constitutes anything more than an anomaly. As I said, put up the evidence, or shhh.

Actually, No, I am pointing out that citing a lack of similar findings by a failed system of oversight doesn't establish this as a "incredibly particular case". It's like saying "we never found a problem at this factory" when you never adequately inspected the factory for potential problems
 
Last edited:
today, the bronx

In the film, created by the pro-life organization Live Action, an abortion counselor at the Dr. Emily Women’s Health Center in the Bronx explains the gruesome late-term process to an undercover Live Action investigator seeking an abortion at 23 weeks (abortion is legal in New York State until the 24th week.)

In the video the counselor describes how the “fully grown” fetus will be sucked out with a “sucking tool that they hold, and it sucks it in” and how the fetus will come out in pieces because it will “start falling apart.”

If the fetus comes out in one piece, however, they put it “in a jar — a container, with solution,” the counselor explains — adding that everything that comes out in an abortion has “to go to the lab” to be disposed of.

If the baby is “twitching,” the counselor says, “the solution will make it stop… That is the whole purpose of the solution.”

If the baby is breathing, the counselor goes on, the solution stops that too. “It will automatically stop. It won’t be able to breathe anymore. Not in the — not with the solution.”

When asked if the solution is “toxic,” the counselor — who reveals she has been working at the clinic since she was 16 years old — answers in the affirmative.

Another clinic worker highlighted in the video says that if the fetus comes out alive they will send it to a hospital, but that the abortionist does the “termination inside, and then he removes the pregnancy,” to avoid that.

Hidden camera reveals gruesome late-term abortion details | The Daily Caller

all legal in ny, thank goodness

it always all comes down to values

any of you old enough to remember how mike wallace, father of fox' chris, made his name in broadcast journalism almost 50 years ago?

60 Minutes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Nazis, serial killers, holocausts and abortion providers. That's how your contribution to this thread can be summarized.

You're emotional.

Now put your money where your mouth is, why won't ya?

You are right about the Nazi part. I should not have made the comparison and instead kept my thoughts to myself.
 
you're asserting that such groups would find out other Gosnell's when we have direct evidence that it didn't root out gosnell This was also in spite of failed inspections, numerous complaints, abortion related injuries and death?

Yes it is, when the oversight system, you're citing as proof clearly didn't work. And not only didn't work, but colluded to protect such activities, despite failed inspections, numerous complaints, and a legacy of procedure related injury and death

Actually, No, I am pointing out that citing a lack of similar findings by a failed system of oversight doesn't establish this as a "incredibly particular case". It's like saying "we never found a problem at this factory, when you never adequately inspected the factory for potential problems

And yet, it wasn't "federal" oversight which brought light to such a place, it was the death of 1 person. So if this is so common - why don't we have reports of women dying due to illegal abortion practices all over the country? Why is it that this case isn't as common as people like nota, cp and Grant want it to be?

The facts are simple:

- Abortion mortality rate 0.6 per 100,000.
- There is no widespread butcher shop crisis.
- Clinics are being shut down for things which wouldn't stop private hospitals from carrying out procedures (lost documentation, undertrained staff, skipping paperwork).

-----------------------------------

The right is using this case to shut down clinics if their hallways aren't a certain size. There are no massive reports, official or otherwise, of butcher shops and even if there are, they can be reasonably tied to states using back alley attempts to legislate abortion clinics out of existence.
 
What's a corpse here or there when a woman's right to kill unborn babies for convenience is at stake?
 
" Abortion mortality rate 0.6 per 100,000."

Wrong...it's almost 100%. The baby generally dies. Maybe you didn't know that.
 
" Abortion mortality rate 0.6 per 100,000."

Wrong...it's almost 100%. The baby generally dies. Maybe you didn't know that.

I don't consider primordial soup to be a baby anymore than you consider a puddle of water to be a lake.
 
You are right about the Nazi part. I should not have made the comparison and instead kept my thoughts to myself.

Ah, so most prolific serial killer in American history wasn't emotional. Lolz, are you trolling me bro?
 
And yet, it wasn't "federal" oversight which brought light to such a place, it was the death of 1 person.

Actually,, no, it was a drug raid ...

So if this is so common - why don't we have reports of women dying due to illegal abortion practices all over the country?

I just cited collusion within the medical and regulatory community. From the grand Jury report (pg 212-213):

We learned of at least five of Gosnell’s patients who were treated for serious
complications at the Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania (HUP) or Presbyterian
Hospital, the two closest emergency rooms to the Women’s Medical Society clinic. We
heard evidence of many more women, whose names we did not learn, who also had to
seek emergency care after undergoing abortions at Gosnell’s facility. Yet we received no
complication reports when we subpoenaed documents from DOH.
The attorney representing HUP doctors before the Grand Jury was able to
produce only one confirmed report ever made (which raises the question why DOH did
not turn over this report). That one report was for Semika Shaw, who died at the hospital
in March 2000. Documents turned over to the Grand Jury show that, following Shaw’s
death, another hospital attorney, Mary Ellen Nepps, distributed a memo to doctors at
HUP and Pennsylvania Hospital. The memo reminded the physicians, “in light of some
recent reports of abortion complications and maternal deaths,” that they were responsible
for filing reports with DOH in such cases.
Yet, when Karnamaya Mongar died at HUP nine years later, no report was made.
Nor did the Grand Jury receive evidence of reports made, other than in Shaw’s case, for
any of the serious complications that other patients of Gosnell suffered


Why is it that this case isn't as common as people like nota, cp and Grant want it to be?

Again, your citing lack of similar incidents, when the system entrusted with discovering such incidents was deeply flawed and ignored reports and direct evidence of wrong doing. Like I said, it's like saying your car never failed inspection, while forgetting to mention it was never inspected


The right is using this case to shut down clinics if their hallways aren't a certain size.

No, there were very clear issues with the oversight process here, that are easily recognizable regardless of your views on abortion. Unless you think doctors working to protect death and injury from malpractice, and regulatory agencies purposely ignoring such incidents, isn't a problem.

You using it for political fodder from the other side of the isle doesn't change that
 
" Abortion mortality rate 0.6 per 100,000."

Wrong...it's almost 100%. The baby generally dies. Maybe you didn't know that.

the irony is he's citing this figure when one of the problems in this case, that allowed it to fester for so long, was the ingrained attitude of NOT reporting abortion related injuries and death in the medical community
 
A typical Nazi rationalization. This holocaust in not fictional at all. Many Muslims and left wingers still deny the Jewish Holocaust, and I see the same thing happening here.

Point of order: right-wing Holocaust denial is a lot more prevalent than the leftish variety, which is negligible.
 
- Clinics are being shut down for things which wouldn't stop private hospitals from carrying out procedures (lost documentation, undertrained staff, skipping paperwork).

actually, no, prior to the Gosnell case, according to the grand jury report, Abortion clinics were able to operate with less oversight than other outpatient facilities, which have less regulations than hospitals for obvious reasons.
 
Unborn life is not subhuman. You guys need to stop using so many strawmen.

It's not a strawman when it's a common argument. You may pretend you don't make that argument, you might actually not do so, but rather a lot of your peers do.
 
Back
Top Bottom