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Thread: Baby Abortion Survivor Was "Swimming" In Toilet "Trying To Get Out"

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    Re: Baby Abortion Survivor Was "Swimming" In Toilet "Trying To Get Out"

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    That is absolutely untrue. As soon as the sperm attaches itself to the egg and releases hormones, that is the beginning of pregnancy. Birth control prevents that from happening. IF the egg attaches itself, then you are pregnant, and the IUD CAN prevent that from occurring but pregnancies still occur once the egg has attached itself.

    Types of IUDs
    Hormonal IUD. The hormonal IUD, such as Mirena, releases levonorgestrel, which is a form of the hormone progestin. The hormonal IUD appears to be slightly more effective at preventing pregnancy than the copper IUD. The hormonal IUD is effective for at least 5 years.

    Copper IUD. The most commonly used IUD is the copper IUD (such as Paragard). Copper wire is wound around the stem of the T-shaped IUD. The copper IUD can stay in place for at least 10 years and is a highly effective form of contraception.
    How it works

    Both types of IUD prevent fertilization of the egg by damaging or killing sperm. The IUD also affects the uterine lining (where a fertilized egg would implant and grow).

    Hormonal IUD. This IUD prevents fertilization by damaging or killing sperm and making the mucus in the cervix thick and sticky, so sperm can't get through to the uterus. It also keeps the lining of the uterus (endometrium) from growing very thick.1 This makes the lining a poor place for a fertilized egg to implant and grow. The hormones in this IUD also reduce menstrual bleeding and cramping.

    Copper IUD. Copper is toxic to sperm. It makes the uterus and fallopian tubes produce fluid that kills sperm. This fluid contains white blood cells, copper ions, enzymes, and prostaglandins.1




    I think it's obvious since you just commented on the debate.
    Read the sentence right after the sentence you bolded. It says right there that IUDs also affect the uterine lining, which egg not must implant to. If the egg does, not implantbut is fertilized, you'll never knew you were are mom or whatever you believe that means.

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    Re: Baby Abortion Survivor Was "Swimming" In Toilet "Trying To Get Out"

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    He was found innocent if all charges right before he was murdered. It was socially irresponsible if Bill O'Reilly to call him a murder and Tiller the Baby Killer in the face of all the violence that clinic saw, and the previous attempts made in Tiller's life.
    He was known as 'Tiller The Baby Killer' long before O'Reilly got involved. He was reporting what people were saying, and why not?

    And of course it didn't help his reputation any that he was a baby killer.

    Many pro lifers need to learn how to tone their anger and hate down...
    Many pro abortionists need to learn to defend human life more.

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    Re: Baby Abortion Survivor Was "Swimming" In Toilet "Trying To Get Out"

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    With that being said, I don't trust most lifers would make a unbaised judgment on this matter for obvious reason.
    Ahhh irony.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Baby Abortion Survivor Was "Swimming" In Toilet "Trying To Get Out"

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    What you're saying is absolutely wrong. Where did you come up with that definition of pregnancy?

    According to both the scientific community and long-standing federal policy, a woman is considered pregnant only when a fertilized egg has implanted in the wall of her uterus; however, state definitions of pregnancy vary widely.


    Pregnancy is established when a fertilized egg has been implanted in the wall of a woman's uterus. The definition is critical to distinguishing between a contraceptive that prevents pregnancy and an abortifacient that terminates it. And on this point, federal policy has long been both consistent and in accord with the scientists: Drugs and devices that act before implantation prevent, rather than terminate, pregnancy.

    The Implications of Defining When a Woman Is Pregnant


    If a fertalized egg does not attach to the uterine wall, then the woman will never experience a pregnancy or any hormonal changes. The egg will just be flushed out of her body. That's also known as a chemical miscarriage or a chemical abortion.

    The fact is, a fertilized egg has to attach to the uterine wall. Attaching to the woman's uterus is how it gets all it's nutrients to grow and survive. It's impossible to just float around your uterus and grow. And there is no test that can show when fertilization occurs or even happens.


    A woman can only be diagnosed as pregnant after implantation.



    You'll find no scientific communitity saying anything differently. This is pretty much settled.


    Life begins at fertilization.

    Pregnancy begins at implantation.
    I should have said conception. Conception is when the sperm enters the egg. If you notice, the third or fourth line (which I quoted for you below) in my post says that you are only considered pregnant when the egg implants itself onto the uterine wall. So, I think you're getting mixed up too.

    IF the egg attaches itself, then you are pregnant, and the IUD CAN prevent that from occurring but pregnancies still occur once the egg has attached itself.
    The first line of defense against pregnancy is the spermicide action of the pills/IUD. The thinning of the uterine wall is a MUCH less effective method of preventing pregnancy. A lot of times if the BC fails to kill the sperm, the egg can manage to implant itself anyway. The combination pill is the only pill I'm aware of that does both (spermicide/thinning of uterine walls).

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    Re: Baby Abortion Survivor Was "Swimming" In Toilet "Trying To Get Out"

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    Read the sentence right after the sentence you bolded. It says right there that IUDs also affect the uterine lining, which egg not must implant to. If the egg does, not implantbut is fertilized, you'll never knew you were are mom or whatever you believe that means.
    Okay, but that is only a secondary action. The first and most important part is killing the sperm. Without that important factor, I'll bet birth control would not be very effective at all; if it had to rely on thinning of the uterine walls to prevent pregnancy. That is not reliable enough to prevent a pregnancy in a lot of cases.

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    Re: Baby Abortion Survivor Was "Swimming" In Toilet "Trying To Get Out"

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    A lot of lifers.are way too emotionally invested in this issue and see it as black and white, so I am not surprised you would find some other reason to consider him a mass murderer in your eyes. But in reality, your side lacked sufficient evidence.
    Is "lifer" the new leftist term for those who are against murdering newborn babies? Where is the gray area as far as murdering viable babies is concerned?

    This is why I have a hard time taking the pro life.position seriously
    Others take the pro death position quite seriously indeed.

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    Re: Baby Abortion Survivor Was "Swimming" In Toilet "Trying To Get Out"

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post
    Am I the only one who finds the claims a bit absurd and fantastic? Flushing late term babies is not going to work. Babies do not swim right after birth. Is any of the claims on that supposed news site even possible? They sound like something an idiot would make up.
    the question should not even be about whether babies can or can not swim at birth as it is they were flushing them down the f"n toilet.

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    Re: Baby Abortion Survivor Was "Swimming" In Toilet "Trying To Get Out"

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    I already said I don't like late term abortion, but I am a pragmatic person. I realize we need somebody in society to provide them for health and safety issues pregnant women face.
    However neither of these conditions applied to either Tiller or Gosnell.
    If there was sufficient evidence against Tiller I wouldn't hesitate one minute for him be held accountable by the law.
    It seems there was sufficient evidence, and was even discussed in an interview with Tiller.
    With that being said, I don't trust most lifers would make a unbaised judgment on this matter for obvious reason. Lifers are screaming this man is a murderer and have been since before he was found innocent of all accusations.
    Who is screaming and how can only one side be biased?
    The law still says a woman cannot abort that late unless for valid reasons, and you still don't're trust the women or the doctor. You never will either. Lifers will always be outside late term abortion clinics, even shouting at dying women, because you think you know she could live and she doesn't need to slaughter her.child.
    Did you see Tiller or Gosnell outline any "valid reasons"?

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    Re: Baby Abortion Survivor Was "Swimming" In Toilet "Trying To Get Out"

    During his instructions to the jury, the judge spelled out the state's abortion law and how it defines a live baby as one that is fully expelled from the mother and showing signs of life such as breathing, heart beat or movement.

    If a baby shows those signs, he told the jury: "That baby us a human being."

    Gosnell's defense contends there is no evidence the babies were alive after they were aborted.

    Defense lawyer Jack McMahon, in his closing argument on Monday, cited testimony by Medical Examiner Sam Gulino, who said none of the 47 babies tested randomly from the West Philadelphia clinic had been born alive.

    "You may not like that evidence, but it is the evidence," McMahon said.

    Assistant District Attorney Edward Cameron said in his closing argument that witnesses testified that one of the aborted babies was breathing before its neck was cut, another made a whining sound and another moved its arms and legs.

    "You have three witnesses who saw a baby breathe and move, and he killed it," Cameron said.

    Gosnell's attorney argued that the doctor used the drug digoxin that would have killed the fetuses, and any noise or movement would have been involuntary spasms.

    Jury weighs fate of abortion doctor in murder trial | Reuters
    I think this guy is cooked...
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    Re: Baby Abortion Survivor Was "Swimming" In Toilet "Trying To Get Out"

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Ahhh irony.
    Its true for both sides, and I wouldn't necessarily call you a level headed person in this debate from what I have seen.

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