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Thread: Baby Abortion Survivor Was "Swimming" In Toilet "Trying To Get Out"

  1. #451
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    Re: Baby Abortion Survivor Was "Swimming" In Toilet "Trying To Get Out"

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Funny how that happens when the person bringing the charges is unseated right before the trial for an AG that is sympathetic to your cause isn't it?

    "As Morrison interpreted the law, if a doctor said an abortion was necessary to protect the life and health of the mother, that was good enough for the AG."

    Read more at How Sebelius subverted the Tiller abortion trial



    A lot of late term abortion advocates are way too emotionally invested in this issue, and try to use a thousand shades of grey, and projection to cloud the issue, so I am not surprised you would some inane technicality, while ignoring what happened leading to that verdict to let him off, and ignore that he was guilty of infanticide.



    No, I am accusing Sebelius, and her lackey Morrison of this, Tiller is just the beneficiary.



    No, you don't take it seriously because you have rationalized the murder of a defenseless child as proper...I feel sorry for you.
    I already said I don't like late term abortion, but I am a pragmatic person. I realize we need somebody in society to provide them for health and safety issues pregnant women face.

    If there was sufficient evidence against Tiller I wouldn't hesitate one minute for him be held accountable by the law.

    With that being said, I don't trust most lifers would make a unbaised judgment on this matter for obvious reason. Lifers are screaming this man is a murderer and have been since before he was found innocent of all accusations.

    The law still says a woman cannot abort that late unless for valid reasons, and you still don't're trust the women or the doctor. You never will either. Lifers will always be outside late term abortion clinics, even shouting at dying women, because you think you know she could live and she doesn't need to slaughter her.child.

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    Re: Baby Abortion Survivor Was "Swimming" In Toilet "Trying To Get Out"

    live action uses the journalism techniques made famous by mike wallace and morley safer 50 years ago on 60 minutes

    yesterday's sting video exposed emily's women's center in the bronx, which sucks out 23 week fetuses, usually tearing them into pieces in the process

    if a delivery is breathing it is put in a jar with a toxic solution

    if you deliver on your own outside the clinic, "flush it"

    (link above)

    all of which appears legal in the bronx

    today live action stings surgi-clinic in washington dc, where dr santangelo is a talkative fellow

    “Hopefully we’ll get this pregnancy out intact, but it doesn’t always happen that way,” abortion doctor Cesare Santangelo says on the video, to a 24-week pregnant undercover Live Action investigator. “I try and sever the umbilical cord first, and we wait for that to stop pulsing, and this way the fetus is expired first.”

    When the undercover Live Action investigator presses Santangelo on what would happen if the baby was born alive, the doctor responds that there are things he can do to make sure that she does not take the child home with her.

    “Technically — you know, legally we would be obligated to help it, you know, to survive. But, you know, it probably wouldn’t. It’s all in how vigorously you do things to help a fetus survive at this point,” he said on the undercover video.

    “Let’s say you went into labor, the membranes ruptured, and you delivered before we got to the termination part of the procedure here, you know?” he continued. “Then we would do things — we would — we would not help it. We wouldn’t intubate. It would be, you know, uh, a person, a terminal person in the hospital, let’s say, that had cancer, you know? You wouldn’t do any extra procedures to help that person survive. Like ‘do not resuscitate’ orders. We would do the same things here.”
    Video: DC abortionist says he would not assist baby born alive | The Daily Caller

    live action published a statement:

    “Our videos expose the truly gruesome, illegal, and inhuman practices going on inside many of America’s abortion clinics. Our investigation reveals that these inhuman practices are just another day at the office for abortionists and their staff.”
    so there's wilmington, emily's in the bronx, surgi-clinic in dc, and 3801 lancaster...

    that we know about

    this is what bloomberg is pointing to when it ponders: "live births do, in fact, happen during late-term abortions"

    it drives the beast: "sometimes these fetuses are delivered alive"

    and: "worse, it hints at what we might be doing inside the womb to ensure that the other ones aren't"

    so that's the big question---how many late term abortions in this country fail to kill the target and end up with a baby breathing or twitching or swimming in a toilet?

    the choicers' chief concern centering around gosnell is---there are a lot more post-birth abortions going down around here than gramma ever suspected

    wapo weighs in, "raising questions about what might happen to a baby as a result of an unsuccessful abortion"

    In an interview with The Washington Post, Santangelo said he was trying to reassure the woman, who turned out to be an undercover operative of the group, Live Action. In reality, he said, he would call 9-1-1. But he said he stands by what he said on tape.

    “What I said is, basically I wouldn’t do anything extraordinary,” he said Saturday. “We would call EMS. We would call 9-1-1. But I wouldn’t do intubation or anything. . . . You let nature take its course.”
    Antiabortion group releases videos of clinic workers discussing live births - The Washington Post

    wapo emphasizes that dr santangelo has done nothing criminal

    wapo legitimately provides a platform for the director of emily's in the bronx to announce that her worker misspoke and live births do not occur at her clinic

    (dr santangelo oughta give her a call)

    live action claims illegality:

    "abortion doctors are willing to kill babies in violation of the federal born-alive infants protection act of 2002, which requires them to try to save a child born during a failed abortion using the same measures used in miscarriages or preterm births at the same stage of pregnancy"

    wapo looks at the movements in arkansas and north dakota to ban abortion after 12 weeks

    wapo gets to the point:

    More than 88 percent of the 1.2 million abortions performed each year in the United States are done in the first trimester, and most doctors will not perform them beyond 24 weeks because of moral qualms, legal concerns or lack of experience. Barely 1 percent of procedures — perhaps about 15,000 each year — are done after 21 weeks. At 37 weeks, a baby is generally considered full-term. No group has statistics on how many fetuses survive an abortion, experts said.
    barely one percent of abortions are done after 21 weeks?

    are dr gosnell's hundreds, even thousands of operations over the years included in that stat?

    live action promises more to come---just how many clinics around america are willing to discuss what they do when botched abortions start breathing?

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    Re: Baby Abortion Survivor Was "Swimming" In Toilet "Trying To Get Out"

    a discussion decades overdue

    New undercover videos of abortion professionals explaining late-term abortions, coupled with states passing strict new abortion laws and a horror-show abortion criminal case, are keeping abortion at the top of the news — an unexpected development after the nation re-elected its most vocal pro-choice president.

    On Monday, the pro-life activist group Live Action released the second in a series of undercover videos on late-term abortions.

    In both of the videos, abortion professionals describe late-term abortions, including advice about what could happen in the rare event that a fetus survived the initial abortion.

    “Our videos expose the truly gruesome, illegal, and inhuman practices going on inside many of America’s abortion clinics,” said Lila Rose, president of Live Action. “Dr. Kermit Gosnell is not alone.”

    The new political and legal clashed over abortion come as President Obama last week became the first sitting president to address a Planned Parenthood national conference, underscoring his support for keeping abortion legal.

    After thanking participants Friday for their help in passing his signature health care reform and for their services to women, Mr. Obama assured Planned Parenthood that as long as there are battles over women’s reproductive and health care rights, “you’ve also got a president who’s going to be right there with you, fighting every step of the way.”
    Videos fuel surging debate on abortion - Washington Times

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    Re: Baby Abortion Survivor Was "Swimming" In Toilet "Trying To Get Out"


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    Re: Baby Abortion Survivor Was "Swimming" In Toilet "Trying To Get Out"

    wow, i've never seen such a transformation

    Washington Post: Are there more abortion doctors like Kermit Gosnell? And do we want to know?

    “I don’t know why you want to know all this; just do it.” – Clinic worker in the Bronx, answering questions about late-term abortion from a woman who was 23 weeks pregnant.

    An antiabortion activist appears to have videotaped a counselor at a Bronx clinic laughingly advising her not to trouble herself with the particulars of the late-term abortion that the woman, who was 23 weeks pregnant, said she wanted. What if the baby were born alive at home once the process was set in motion? “If it comes out, then it comes out; flush it,’’ a counselor at the Dr. Emily Women’s Health Center answered the undercover activist on the tape. She’d been working at the clinic for nearly 11 years, she said — since she was only 16.

    Since a grand jury first drew us a picture of his “house of horrors” clinic two years ago, abortion-rights activists have argued that that’s what happens when there are too few legitimate clinics, and no federal funding for abortions for poor women.

    But if the overarching goal is first, last and always protecting women’s health, why didn’t the National Abortion Federation inspector who turned down Gosnell’s membership application report the unsanitary conditions and safety violations she saw there? If what she observed — a padlock on an emergency exit in a part of the clinic where women were left alone overnight, for example — was so far outside the norm, then why didn’t it inspire a single phone call to the state, according to the grand jury report? Instead, the gruesome Dr. G was only shut down after investigators were tipped off that he was over-prescribing OxyContin.

    Other such criminal clinics have only made the news as local stories, while most mainstream abortion coverage details threats to abortion rights rather than to women themselves. Even when a New York woman died after a third-trimester abortion performed in Maryland in February, the coverage questioned not the care that led to her death, but the breach of privacy she suffered when antiabortion activists publicized the case.

    Where’s the coverage of extreme views at the other end of the spectrum? Of, for instance, the jaw-dropping testimony of Planned Parenthood official Alisa LaPolt Snow? When asked by a Florida lawmaker what kind of medical care the organization thinks a child who somehow survives a late-term abortion should get, Snow suggested that even then, the child’s fate is a woman’s right to choose.

    That’s how our president voted as an Illinois state senator, too, even after his stated concerns about the “born alive” bill were addressed. Though there is a lot of room for disagreement on when life does begin, most of us think viability is a pretty clear, bright line.

    Not Planned Parenthood, though, which hasn’t disavowed anything Snow said. And not the Bronx counselor caught on tape, who warns the woman sitting in front of her that no matter what happens, she mustn’t go to the hospital, where if she were to give birth to a live child, that baby might be given medical care.

    While in campaign mode, Obama purported to respect diverse views on the abortion issue. But I detected no such sensitivity in his Friday remarks at Planned Parenthood, where he spoke of “those who want to turn back the clock to policies more suited to the 1950s than the 21st century. And they’ve been involved in an orchestrated and historic effort to roll back basic rights when it comes to women’s health.”
    yes, a discussion decades overdue

    it all turned when kirsten powers appeared in usatoday

    are there more gosnells?

    and do YOU want to know?

    does obama?

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    Re: Baby Abortion Survivor Was "Swimming" In Toilet "Trying To Get Out"

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    wow, i've never seen such a transformation

    Washington Post: Are there more abortion doctors like Kermit Gosnell? And do we want to know?



    yes, a discussion decades overdue

    it all turned when kirsten powers appeared in usatoday

    are there more gosnells?

    and do YOU want to know?

    does obama?
    America doesn't want to know that answer...Because for the truth about what is going on in that arena would open the door for increased regulation, and we both know that is only for practices that progressive liberals hate, like capitalism.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Baby Abortion Survivor Was "Swimming" In Toilet "Trying To Get Out"

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    You're not considered pregnant until the fertilized egg attaches to the uterine wall and the body starts producing pregnancy hormones.

    Many types of birth control prevent more than jusr fertilization. Like UIDs, they also prevent implantation.
    That is absolutely untrue. As soon as the sperm attaches itself to the egg and releases hormones, that is the beginning of pregnancy. Birth control prevents that from happening. IF the egg attaches itself, then you are pregnant, and the IUD CAN prevent that from occurring but pregnancies still occur once the egg has attached itself.

    Types of IUDs
    Hormonal IUD. The hormonal IUD, such as Mirena, releases levonorgestrel, which is a form of the hormone progestin. The hormonal IUD appears to be slightly more effective at preventing pregnancy than the copper IUD. The hormonal IUD is effective for at least 5 years.

    Copper IUD. The most commonly used IUD is the copper IUD (such as Paragard). Copper wire is wound around the stem of the T-shaped IUD. The copper IUD can stay in place for at least 10 years and is a highly effective form of contraception.
    How it works

    Both types of IUD prevent fertilization of the egg by damaging or killing sperm. The IUD also affects the uterine lining (where a fertilized egg would implant and grow).

    Hormonal IUD. This IUD prevents fertilization by damaging or killing sperm and making the mucus in the cervix thick and sticky, so sperm can't get through to the uterus. It also keeps the lining of the uterus (endometrium) from growing very thick.1 This makes the lining a poor place for a fertilized egg to implant and grow. The hormones in this IUD also reduce menstrual bleeding and cramping.

    Copper IUD. Copper is toxic to sperm. It makes the uterus and fallopian tubes produce fluid that kills sperm. This fluid contains white blood cells, copper ions, enzymes, and prostaglandins.1


    other than that, I don't understand the.debate you're having.
    I think it's obvious since you just commented on the debate.

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    Re: Baby Abortion Survivor Was "Swimming" In Toilet "Trying To Get Out"

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    That is absolutely untrue. As soon as the sperm attaches itself to the egg and releases hormones, that is the beginning of pregnancy. Birth control prevents that from happening. IF the egg attaches itself, then you are pregnant, and the IUD CAN prevent that from occurring but pregnancies still occur once the egg has attached itself.

    Types of IUDs
    Hormonal IUD. The hormonal IUD, such as Mirena, releases levonorgestrel, which is a form of the hormone progestin. The hormonal IUD appears to be slightly more effective at preventing pregnancy than the copper IUD. The hormonal IUD is effective for at least 5 years.

    Copper IUD. The most commonly used IUD is the copper IUD (such as Paragard). Copper wire is wound around the stem of the T-shaped IUD. The copper IUD can stay in place for at least 10 years and is a highly effective form of contraception.
    How it works

    Both types of IUD prevent fertilization of the egg by damaging or killing sperm. The IUD also affects the uterine lining (where a fertilized egg would implant and grow).

    Hormonal IUD. This IUD prevents fertilization by damaging or killing sperm and making the mucus in the cervix thick and sticky, so sperm can't get through to the uterus. It also keeps the lining of the uterus (endometrium) from growing very thick.1 This makes the lining a poor place for a fertilized egg to implant and grow. The hormones in this IUD also reduce menstrual bleeding and cramping.

    Copper IUD. Copper is toxic to sperm. It makes the uterus and fallopian tubes produce fluid that kills sperm. This fluid contains white blood cells, copper ions, enzymes, and prostaglandins.1




    I think it's obvious since you just commented on the debate.
    What you're saying is absolutely wrong. Where did you come up with that definition of pregnancy?

    According to both the scientific community and long-standing federal policy, a woman is considered pregnant only when a fertilized egg has implanted in the wall of her uterus; however, state definitions of pregnancy vary widely.


    Pregnancy is established when a fertilized egg has been implanted in the wall of a woman's uterus. The definition is critical to distinguishing between a contraceptive that prevents pregnancy and an abortifacient that terminates it. And on this point, federal policy has long been both consistent and in accord with the scientists: Drugs and devices that act before implantation prevent, rather than terminate, pregnancy.

    The Implications of Defining When a Woman Is Pregnant


    If a fertalized egg does not attach to the uterine wall, then the woman will never experience a pregnancy or any hormonal changes. The egg will just be flushed out of her body. That's also known as a chemical miscarriage or a chemical abortion.

    The fact is, a fertilized egg has to attach to the uterine wall. Attaching to the woman's uterus is how it gets all it's nutrients to grow and survive. It's impossible to just float around your uterus and grow. And there is no test that can show when fertilization occurs or even happens.


    A woman can only be diagnosed as pregnant after implantation.



    You'll find no scientific communitity saying anything differently. This is pretty much settled.


    Life begins at fertilization.

    Pregnancy begins at implantation.

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    Re: Baby Abortion Survivor Was "Swimming" In Toilet "Trying To Get Out"

    Spartans used to put all newborn babies into toilets to weed out the weak amongst them.
    Either I'm right or you're wrong.

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    Re: Baby Abortion Survivor Was "Swimming" In Toilet "Trying To Get Out"

    Here is another link for you ChrisL.

    How does The Pill Work

    The pill works to prevent pregnancy, primarily, because it suppresses a woman's body from ovulating during her monthly menstrual cycle. If the ovary does not release an egg, then there is nothing there for a sperm to fertilize. The pill (and hormonal contraception) may also make the fallopian tubes less likely to move an egg toward the uterus. As mentioned above, the progestin-only pill may prevent ovulation for some women, but it may also not be consistently prevented by using these pills. Likewise, Mirena may stop some women from ovulating, but this is not the main way that Mirena works to prevent pregnancy.

    The next way that hormonal contraception and the pill work is that they help to thicken the cervical mucus (the substance at cervix/opening of the uterus). This makes the mucus sticky, so when sperm try to get through the cervix, this sticky mucus makes it much harder for them to swim through -- thus making it more difficult to reach and fertilize the egg.

    The final way that the pill works to prevent pregnancy has to do with the uterine lining. Hormonal contraceptives may cause changes to the lining of the uterus. The hormones in these methods can thin out or prevent the growth of uterine tissue. This may reduce the likelihood of implantation.
    How the Pill Works to Prevent Pregnancy


    Hormonal birth control prevents pregnancy in more ways than one. Your uterine lining has to be thick for the fertalized egg to attach to your uterus.

    Birth control makes the uterine lining thin to prevent implantation. That's why women who take birth control have lighter periods.

    However, this doesn't mean that birth control only prevents implantation. It is supposed to prevent fertilization as well, but as a back up measure, it also prevents implantation and ovulation.


    With that being said, I believe that progesterone only birth control does not prevent implantation. It's the birth control that contains a mixture of progesterone and estrogen hormones. Both of those hormones combine is what affect the lining of uterus naturally (before and after a menstrual cycle, and during pregnancy).

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