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Thread: Gunfire, explosions reported around Dexter Street in Watertown. (Boston)[W: 83,846]

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    Re: Gunfire, explosions reported around Dexter Street in Watertown. (Boston)[W: 83]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    It's been said that "actions speak louder than words". Perhaps his actions suggest he harbored some resentments.
    Perhaps they do, but I wasn't debating that. I was debating that he actually said that he "hated Americans."

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    Re: Gunfire, explosions reported around Dexter Street in Watertown. (Boston)[W: 83]

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    Because there's no such thing as "American culture." The notion that it exists is found only in the minds of clueless fools who buy into silly cliches such as American being a "melting pot." The US is merely a group of people who live and socialize within smaller groups, based on shared values, interests, or ethnicity.

    To succeed socially in the US, one need not attempt to blend in with anything, but merely assert one's true self based on objective self-analysis, and then find a space in society where that self is compatible (i. e. "turn on, tune in, drop out" as suggested by Leary).

    Attempting to merely "fit in" to one's immediate surroundings would only worsen one's life, as it would force him/her to be someone he/she is not. But regrettably, many foreigners, notably younguns, don't figure this out in time.
    You sound like a person who

    A) has never been to America or
    B) never left America.

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    Re: Gunfire, explosions reported around Dexter Street in Watertown. (Boston)[W: 83]

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Perhaps they do, but I wasn't debating that. I was debating that he actually said that he "hated Americans."
    In fact you don't know what he said or didn't say. Everything so far is hearsay and we have no idea what he said in his private conversations, especially those with his brother. It seems obvious that he did have some strong feelings however, and it would not be unjustified to feel that the word "hate" might not be a factor in his decision to murder innocent Americans.

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    Re: Gunfire, explosions reported around Dexter Street in Watertown. (Boston)[W: 83]

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Perhaps they do, but I wasn't debating that. I was debating that he actually said that he "hated Americans."
    I think you're splitting hairs with that. That he didn't say specifically that (and he may have, who knows) doesn't change the nature of his actions.

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    Re: Gunfire, explosions reported around Dexter Street in Watertown. (Boston)[W: 83]

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    I agree with that. The vast majority of speculation in this thread has come out of trying to understand the mentality of the victims as you said. However, some speculation has come from other, less helpful, places - in my opinion. And, in both instances, it probably is rooted in attempting to find some peace of mind. I just have a hard time, in situations like these, when attempts to get such peace of mind ends up being disruptive and unhelpful.
    To be fair, disruptive and unhelpful are rather subjective. People trying to find peace of mind in a way opposite of you is disruptive. To others, wringing ones hands wondering what could've made these guys feel so disconnected, what could've possibly made them feel at odds with america or some of the culture, what could've possibly pushed them to do something like this is disruptive and unhelpful as it's focusing too much care and concern onto the guilty parties feelings, mindset, and situation.

    Simply because you view it in a particular fashion doesn't give you universal dominion over what is "helpful" or "disruptive" regarding the situation. You're issues with people speculating about their stances on America or ties to Islam is no different than their issues with your wondering about his isolation and other such things.

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    Re: Gunfire, explosions reported around Dexter Street in Watertown. (Boston)[W: 83]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    In fact you don't know what he said or didn't say. Everything so far is hearsay and we have no idea what he said in his private conversations, especially those with his brother. It seems obvious that he did have some strong feelings however, and it would not be unjustified to feel that the word "hate" might not be a factor in his decision to murder innocent Americans.
    The statement that I was debating with others was from an interview that I posted so yes, I do know what he said.

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    Re: Gunfire, explosions reported around Dexter Street in Watertown. (Boston)[W: 83]

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    To be fair, disruptive and unhelpful are rather subjective. People trying to find peace of mind in a way opposite of you is disruptive. To others, wringing ones hands wondering what could've made these guys feel so disconnected, what could've possibly made them feel at odds with america or some of the culture, what could've possibly pushed them to do something like this is disruptive and unhelpful as it's focusing too much care and concern onto the guilty parties feelings, mindset, and situation.

    Simply because you view it in a particular fashion doesn't give you universal dominion over what is "helpful" or "disruptive" regarding the situation. You're issues with people speculating about their stances on America or ties to Islam is no different than their issues with your wondering about his isolation and other such things.
    I don't have an issue with people speculating on their stances on America or ties to Islam. I was the first person to post an interview with suspect #1 where he talks about Islam and his problems with the United States. Moreover, after someone brought that interview up again, I specifically said that it might shed light on their motivations. I have issues with people injecting attitudes into an otherwise attitude free environment. That is disruptive and unhelpful whereas working together to find info and politely discussing theories is the opposite.

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    Re: Gunfire, explosions reported around Dexter Street in Watertown. (Boston)[W: 83]

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    Because there's no such thing as "American culture." .
    My goodness, what an extraordinarily ignorant statement.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: Gunfire, explosions reported around Dexter Street in Watertown. (Boston)[W: 83]

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    That is disruptive and unhelpful whereas working together to find info and politely discussing theories is the opposite.
    That I can agree with. I don't like a lot of speculation at the start of these things...but we're now 4 days in with actual names and information beginning to come out. I can understand speculation of all kinds occuring. It definitely would be nice if people didn't put on a huge attitude when they dislike the speculation of someone elses in this thread as it has been rather even toned for most of the day.

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    Re: Gunfire, explosions reported around Dexter Street in Watertown. (Boston)[W: 83]

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Perhaps they do, but I wasn't debating that. I was debating that he actually said that he "hated Americans."
    But how can you debate what he said when you don't know what he said. Maybe he did say it at one time, maybe he didn't. Neither you or I know.

    Therefore we can only conclude his feelings by his actions, and everything appears to point to some level of hatred.

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