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Thread: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks...[W: 349]

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    Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    It does not ban background checks. It does not even mention them .
    Here's the thing, prohibiting criminals from owning weapons is legitimate to a degree under due process, which is a constitutional right. Once one has misused a right they can forfeit it, though proper law would allow them recourse for restoration of those rights. Because there must be a way to enforce prohibitions there is a borderline, the reason a dealer can be legally compelled to run the check is because they are selling inventory and not personal property. The line blurs when I am looking to sell my own property, as I am not a dealer and don't sell "for profit" I am not a licensed firearms business so my legal responsibilities are very short. Under the UBGC I would be compelled to purchase an NICS check, it reduces the value of my sale whether it's having to reduce the asking price to facilitate the check fee or having to pay it out of pocket so economic choices are taken from me.

    Now, where this gets tricky is where my rights as a private seller end. I may not sell to anyone who I know is a criminal or if they express any intent to use the firearm in a crime, if I have some reason to believe they are buying it to commit a crime I have no legal right to sell it to them. Of course, I don't personally have a desire to sell any of my guns, I buy what I want the first time BUT others get tired of weapons and they want to sell or trade, I can tell you that were I to sell a firearm it would probably be to someone I know well or at least if it was someone I didn't if they looked nervous or agitated I won't sell to them, that's part of my responsibility as a gun owner.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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    Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    As I suspected...its the "They're coming to get my guns!!!!!!" hysteria.
    You suspect nothing, you are engaging in your typical partisan attacks and issuance of party talking points. Registrations have led to confiscations in almost every nation that legally required them, that is a fact.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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    Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    You suspect nothing, you are engaging in your typical partisan attacks and issuance of party talking points. Registrations have led to confiscations in almost every nation that legally required them, that is a fact.
    You've been listening to waaaaaay too much right-wing radio propoganda. Obama isn't coming for your guns.....relax.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    You've been listening to waaaaaay too much right-wing radio propoganda. Obama isn't coming for your guns.....relax.
    Ah, so it has to be "right wing propoganda". Dude, this is pathetic, you used a propoganda poll, you speak propoganda, and you don't understand the issue, I do. I've been paying attention to these things since I was a child, and behavioral patterns of both parties are not in the best interest of the people at large.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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    Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    That is the Breaking News banner headline on cnn.com.

    Fox News' banner reads: "SENATE REJECTS PLAN EXPANDING GUN BACKGROUNDCHECKS IN 54-46 VOTE"

    Edit: And now there is a full link to include.

    Background check plan defeated in major setback for Senate gun bill | Fox News
    What I find really interesting is the Democrats who voted against the measure. Begich AK, Pryor AR and Baucus of MT are up for re-election in 2014 from red pro gun states and a vote for gun control probably would have meant defeat for these 3. Heitkamp campaigned as a pro gun advocate in ND and won her seat last year.

    I have to hand it to Landrieu of LA, Hagan of NC who voted for the measure from pro gun states. I can guarantee these two will hear about their yea votes come November of next year.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Here's the thing, prohibiting criminals from owning weapons is legitimate to a degree under due process, which is a constitutional right. Once one has misused a right they can forfeit it, though proper law would allow them recourse for restoration of those rights. Because there must be a way to enforce prohibitions there is a borderline, the reason a dealer can be legally compelled to run the check is because they are selling inventory and not personal property. The line blurs when I am looking to sell my own property, as I am not a dealer and don't sell "for profit" I am not a licensed firearms business so my legal responsibilities are very short. Under the UBGC I would be compelled to purchase an NICS check, it reduces the value of my sale whether it's having to reduce the asking price to facilitate the check fee or having to pay it out of pocket so economic choices are taken from me.

    Now, where this gets tricky is where my rights as a private seller end. I may not sell to anyone who I know is a criminal or if they express any intent to use the firearm in a crime, if I have some reason to believe they are buying it to commit a crime I have no legal right to sell it to them. Of course, I don't personally have a desire to sell any of my guns, I buy what I want the first time BUT others get tired of weapons and they want to sell or trade, I can tell you that were I to sell a firearm it would probably be to someone I know well or at least if it was someone I didn't if they looked nervous or agitated I won't sell to them, that's part of my responsibility as a gun owner.
    Well that all depends on the moral character of the person selling the gun. If they are honest they will likely play by the laws.

    But there are some gun sellers who are not so morally sound and may only care about the money, and they may engage in some shady dealing methods.

    My concern with this lack of background checks for private dealers and Internet transactions means that a majority of gun sales happen below the radar. If you allow me to use a analogy: a ships radar does no good if it can not detect all ranges of threats.

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    Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post

    Now, where this gets tricky is where my rights as a private seller end. I may not sell to anyone who I know is a criminal or if they express any intent to use the firearm in a crime, if I have some reason to believe they are buying it to commit a crime I have no legal right to sell it to them. Of course, I don't personally have a desire to sell any of my guns, I buy what I want the first time BUT others get tired of weapons and they want to sell or trade, I can tell you that were I to sell a firearm it would probably be to someone I know well or at least if it was someone I didn't if they looked nervous or agitated I won't sell to them, that's part of my responsibility as a gun owner.
    Exactly. I would not remotely consider selling a gun to someone I didn't know well, and trust implicitly. To do otherwise is (imo) careless.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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    Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

    I am afraid this will have severe push back in the future. This bill actually would have made any sort of registry illegal. I bet the next one dont. The NRA has gone a bridge too far.
    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Somewhat true....but with 93% of the country favoring it...I have a strong suspicion that they are more afraid of the NRA than they are of their constituents.
    God Bless the Marine Corps.

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    Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Sure....included in the "purchase" of an item. Same as when you buy a car.
    Last I knew the federal government did not require a criminal background check to buy a car. And last I knew a criminal background check is required by law at the expense of the owner and wouldn't even be done if it wasn't a law. Do you see a difference?
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by mak2 View Post
    I am afraid this will have severe push back in the future. This bill actually would have made any sort of registry illegal. I bet the next one dont. The NRA has gone a bridge too far.
    This comment reminds me of a famous quote...."Those that would give up a little liberty for a little security deserve neither".
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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