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Thread: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks...[W: 349]

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    Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    I'm not opposed to voter ID laws, as long as the process to get the ID is made easily available at no cost to everyone...and while we are at it, we should allow people to register to vote at the same time (which funny...but not surprizingly.....most of the supporters of voter ID laws are against....how come?)
    Against what, having be easily available at no cost? Against having them register to vote at the same time? You'd have to show that this is "mostly" true of "supporters." Sounds like you're hedging your bets to me.

    I'm sure, as well, that you just accepted it when, quite recently, a solid majority was against gay marriage, too.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Yet you fully support making people pay for background checks done on them? More:
    Sure....included in the "purchase" of an item. Same as when you buy a car.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Yet you fully support making people pay for background checks done on them? More:
    That's a very good point. Seems like if he wants to be consistent, the background checks should be totally free.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    There is no legitimate reason to oppose registration. Sorry. We have to register our cars...registering guns is a no brainer.
    There's plenty of reasons, whether you realize it or not every single national confiscation started with registration. You're not getting registration so we may as well bury that dead horse, beating it isn't going to move things forward.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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    Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Sure....included in the "purchase" of an item. Same as when you buy a car.
    Buying a car isn't an explicitly-protected fundamental right.

    Never mind that you don't have to register a car which never leaves private property.
    Last edited by Harshaw; 04-17-13 at 06:28 PM.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by penn1954 View Post
    Background checks were never required in the Constitution!!!
    It does not ban background checks. It does not even mention them .

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    Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    It does not ban background checks. It does not even mention them .
    It doesn't "ban" poll taxes or literacy tests, either, nor "mention" them.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    There's plenty of reasons, whether you realize it or not every single national confiscation started with registration. You're not getting registration so we may as well bury that dead horse, beating it isn't going to move things forward.
    As I suspected...its the "They're coming to get my guns!!!!!!" hysteria.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

    I really did not have a problem with expanding existing background checks. As long as they stayed away from private sales and did not require registration. I don't see it other than being a clear message about gun control in general, which I like. Leave my guns alone.
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    Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    First, do you think that, in and of itself, background checks are good in principle?

    Okay...

    First I should point out that I am, in general, a centrist. I lean a little left on certain things, and a bit right on certain things, but overall I tend to oppose extremes of either sort.

    Now when it comes to gun and self-defense issues, I am a strong defender of the 2A. I don't think it is a right/left issue so much as a freedom issue, and a self-defense issue, and a balance-of-power issue.

    While I question whether mandated background checks are really Constitutional, strictly speaking, I accept the current NICS system as a middle-road compromise position since it is relatively non-burdensome to the honest citizen, and possibly does some tiny minescule amount of good (not a lot really, when you look at how very VERY few prosecutions there have been based on people lying on their form and getting caught at it).

    As far as preventing crime, I doubt it has much effect, given the current lack of action on attempted violations, and the ready availability of firearms on the black market.

    Therefore I have serious doubts that expanding it would have much positive impact. Criminals and the black market would ignore it as they do all laws, and it is not very enforceable.

    Therefore, absent a significant positive impact, I see little reason to support same. As I've said I am not dead-set against some sort of expansion of background checks, as long as it is carefully structured and worded to minimize its impact on the law-abiding... but absent more vigorous and effective use of the EXISTING system to nail criminals, I see little point in it.

    So, absent any likelihood of substantive positive impact, I see no reason to support increasing restrictions on a fundamental human right that is also enumerated in the Constitution. If you'd have me support such a thing, then I need to see that there is a strong benefit to be gained, and that impact on the law-abiding will be minimal.

    Another reason to cheer its failure is that Harry Reid had already talked about trying to slip Feinstein's monsterous AWB back into it later as an amendment... hence my comment about keeping the camel's nose out of the tent in order to avoid ending up with camel droppings on the rug.

    So there ya have it in a nutshell...

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