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Thread: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks...[W: 349]

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    Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Actually....most Americans are pro-choice, although it is pretty close. THIS wasn't even close. The overwhelming majority of Americans back reasonable regulations.
    There are questions about the honesty of the polls and the questions raised. What sort 'reasonable' regulations, for example.

    Yes, the majority of Americans are against abortion, and opposition is growing. More people than ever are against Obamacare and the drag it is on the economy. and opposition is growing.

    But nothing will be done.

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    Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    what you consider reasonable is highly unreasonable

    when it comes to gun rights
    93% of the Country doesn't think so.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    93% of the Country doesn't think so.
    93% of the country wants expanded in depth background checks. Not gun registration lists and unenforceable waist of time private sales background checks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Manta View Post
    93% of the country wants expanded in depth background checks. Not gun registration lists and unenforceable waist of time private sales background checks.
    Which is exactly what the spineless Senate wouldn't let come to a vote.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    There are questions about the honesty of the polls and the questions raised. What sort 'reasonable' regulations, for example.

    Yes, the majority of Americans are against abortion, and opposition is growing. More people than ever are against Obamacare and the drag it is on the economy. and opposition is growing.
    Not correct. It would be helpful to all of us if you spoke with facts rather than your impressions of the facts: "more people than ever" are not against Obamacare. If fact, the opposition is about as low as it ever has been.

    http://www.kff.org/kaiserpolls/upload/8425-F.pdf

    You could say the more people than ever do not understand Obamacare. Given support is constant, one could take from the graph that the opposition has shifted to "I don't know"


    As to your point about the questions raised... do you understand the nuance between view abortion as morally wrong but still being pro-choice? The majority of Americans view abortion as wrong

    Majority of Americans, and Nearly 6 in 10 Young Adults, View Abortion... -- NEW HAVEN, Conn., Jan. 21 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ --,

    but believe it should be available, at least in certain circumstance...

    Abortion
    http://www.gallup.com/poll/160058/ma...-decision.aspx

    Some of us believe that moral standards are higher than legal standards and do not believe we should be legislating morality. Many of us believe divorce is morally wrong (like Christians), but are not advocating that it should be illegal.
    Last edited by upsideguy; 04-21-13 at 02:34 AM.

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    Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Which is exactly what the spineless Senate wouldn't let come to a vote.
    If 93% wanted background checks and they blocked a vote, Id say that was the opposite of spineless. So either your 93% is wrong or your definition of spineless is wrong. Or more than likely, both are wrong.

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    Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Which is exactly what the spineless Senate wouldn't let come to a vote.
    Because you don't have to pass a new law to improve the system of background checks. Enforce and improve the laws we have. The only spineless ones are the senators who tried to pawn off this useless feelgood legislation on the people.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Not correct. It would be helpful to all of us if you spoke with facts rather than your impressions of the facts: "more people than ever" are not against Obamacare. If fact, the opposition is about as low as it ever has been.

    http://www.kff.org/kaiserpolls/upload/8425-F.pdf
    You didn't read your own link apparently.

    Poll finds 15-point drop in Dem support for health law - The Hill's Healthwatch
    You could say the more people than ever do not understand Obamacare. Given support is constant, one could take from the graph that the opposition has shifted to "I don't know"
    The elected officials who passed Obamacare didn't understand. The Dems didn't even read it and Pelosi said that they would have to pass it to read it.

    As to your point about the questions raised... do you understand the nuance between view abortion as morally wrong but still being pro-choice? The majority of Americans view abortion as wrong
    And they are right.

    Majority of Americans, and Nearly 6 in 10 Young Adults, View Abortion... -- NEW HAVEN, Conn., Jan. 21 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ --,

    but believe it should be available, at least in certain circumstance...
    But it seems to be available in ALL circumstances.

    Some of us believe that moral standards are higher than legal standards and do not believe we should be legislating morality. Many of us believe divorce is morally wrong (like Christians), but are not advocating that it should be illegal.
    Pro abortion people argue about 'freedom of choice'. Gun owners want that same freedom of choice, a choice that is actually guaranteed in the Constitution. No such guarantee ever existed for abortion.

    Not everyone dies when people own a gun but someone always dies, 100% of the time, when there is an abortion.

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    Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    93% of the Country doesn't think so.
    The thing is ... the participants were probably thinking "Of course ... we already have background checks so I'll answer YES otherwise it may sound like I favor some kind of Tarantino movie in my home town".

    Look ... if it's really 93% you have to figure there's more than 7% gun owners.

    What was the actual question that was asked? Do you know?

    I know a Gallup poll put the level of importance of gun control at 4% ... that's pretty far down the list.

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    Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Ah, but I did read the link. If you had actually read it you would admitted you were wrong on your original assertion that "more people than ever are against Obamacare"... but I guess you must have read it and now do not want to admit your error as your defense is to try to obfuscate the issue by changing the subject. Whether someone was Democrat or not was NOT your original assertion, which was:

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    There are questions about the honesty of the polls and the questions raised. What sort 'reasonable' regulations, for example.

    Yes, the majority of Americans are against abortion, and opposition is growing. More people than ever are against Obamacare and the drag it is on the economy. and opposition is growing.........

    But nothing will be done.
    Again, to refute your assertion, more people than ever are NOT against ObamaCare. More people than ever just don't know. Since you could not defend your own assertion, I assume you now understand this statement is incorrect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    The elected officials who passed Obamacare didn't understand. The Dems didn't even read it and Pelosi said that they would have to pass it to read it.
    The ACA impacts me directly as an employer of some 60-70 part-time people working in the health care industry. I see some very good things within it and many unknown things. I think the "I don't know" position, right now, is the intelligent position as few people understand the bill or its ramifications (positive and negative). Most of those that are adamantly for it or against it are largely operating out of political loyalty and ignorance.

    I agree that its a water down piece of legislation that will likely fall far short of fixing the problem. I blame the Conservatives for their wonton dereliction of duty for choosing to wash their hands of healthcare reform early on in the process instead of being part of the solution. Our healthcare system is the most expensive (in the first world) and one of the most inefficient in the world.... in 2011 it was almost 18% of GDP (the next most expensive in the 1st world is France, at 11.6% of GDP with a robust national healthcare system)

    Health expenditure, total (% of GDP) | Data | Table

    Almost all economist believe that our long-term economy can not become healthy without a fix to our inefficient healthcare system (one link, you can find a ton that will say the same thing)

    The U.S. Can

    The Cons had a chance to shape an important piece of legislation that might have actually helped fix our economic infrastructure, but it required to much work, gray matter political will for the average Con. They certainly are the party of do-nothings.... What is the old adage, ".... if you are not a part of the solution, you are a part of the problem...?" Enough about healthcare, I am a bit off topic.



    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Pro abortion people argue about 'freedom of choice'. Gun owners want that same freedom of choice, a choice that is actually guaranteed in the Constitution. No such guarantee ever existed for abortion.

    Not everyone dies when people own a gun but someone always dies, 100% of the time, when there is an abortion.
    First off, I don't think there is a "pro-abortion" person.... they are called pro-choice for an important reason. As the polls indicate, people have a moral issue with an abortion but recognize the need for it to be legal.

    Second, I will step up my simile about abortion and divorce.... in the eyes of God (the moral authority), they are fundamentally the same thing. In each case, man is putting asunder God's will. If you read the Gospel, God speaks of marriage as two becoming one... So, the moral and legal treatment of these should be consistent (not consistent between moral and legal, as they are different things, but treated legally in a similar way)

    As for gun rights, no where does is say that gun rights are unlimited. In fact, it was not until 2010 that the Supreme Court even established gun ownership as an individual right (DC v Heller). Even in this ruling, the court specifically said gun ownership is not an unlimited right.

    From opinion:
    "....2) Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. Miller’s holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those “in common use at the time” finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons......" Pp. 54–56.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/29/us/29scotus.html?_r=0
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distri...mbia_v._Heller
    Last edited by upsideguy; 04-21-13 at 12:53 PM.

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