Page 39 of 47 FirstFirst ... 293738394041 ... LastLast
Results 381 to 390 of 463

Thread: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks...[W: 349]

  1. #381
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:19 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    90,000

    Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I live in SC friend....No worries yet....But that doesn't answer my scenario...Could you address that?
    If your family member has been diagnosed as bi-polar, in my humble opinion, they should NOT have a firearm as that is a form of mental illness. They could easily go off their meds and people do that all the time.

    But I am NOT a doctor and that is simply my own opinion. But it would again depend on the laws of your own state and I do not pretend to supersede them.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  2. #382
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:19 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    90,000

    Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    that makes no sense/ why do you support infringements on our rights to KBA
    There are no such things as 'infringements'. The Second Amendment does not mention such things.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  3. #383
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:18 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    30,322

    Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    If your family member has been diagnosed as bi-polar, in my humble opinion, they should NOT have a firearm as that is a form of mental illness. They could easily go off their meds and people do that all the time.

    But I am NOT a doctor and that is simply my own opinion. But it would again depend on the laws of your own state and I do not pretend to supersede them.
    Yes, but in my scenario, they are the bi polar, not me....Should I be able to own?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  4. #384
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:19 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    90,000

    Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Yes, but in my scenario, they are the bi polar, not me....Should I be able to own?
    If you are of sound mind and there are no other legal obstacles like felony convictions against you, and you satisfy the laws of your state, yes.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  5. #385
    Sage
    OpportunityCost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    16,802

    Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    There are no such things as 'infringements'. The Second Amendment does not mention such things.
    Obfuscating word games. The language is shall not be infringed; anything that impedes or restricts access is an infringement, which you very well know. Playing dishonest wordgames, like you always do, is debating in bad faith, or deliberately being dishonest, or trolling. Probably all three. Why do you even bother anymore, anyone thats been on this site for more than a few weeks knows you arent being honest on the 2nd Ammendment.

  6. #386
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:19 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    90,000

    Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Obfuscating word games. The language is shall not be infringed; anything that impedes or restricts access is an infringement, which you very well know. Playing dishonest wordgames, like you always do, is debating in bad faith, or deliberately being dishonest, or trolling. Probably all three. Why do you even bother anymore, anyone thats been on this site for more than a few weeks knows you arent being honest on the 2nd Ammendment.
    Actually , my insisting on the actual word is important because the idea of incremental steps which people now call "infringements" was not part of the Amendment itself. It is far more of a modern concept which defies the original usage of the word INFRINGED which as has been shown repeatedly through dictionaries of the day, was referring to having the right to bear arms denied.

    You make an attack on me and my debate style when that very style and tactics was taught to me by experts through two years of collegiate debate. There, the actual meaning of words is central to debate. There, the true meaning of a word indeed is defined and discussed and all that follows is dependent upon it.

    It is indeed both sad and a commentary upon those who never had that sort of training and experience that time honored methods of college debate are attacked by the unknowing as "obfuscating word games". It is further both sad and an additional commentary upon those who never had that sort of training and experience that those same time honored methods of college debate are attacked by the unknowing and incorrectly labeled as trolling, dishonest and debating in bad faith.

    I would point out to you that attacking me is a poor substitute for actual verifiable evidence. You attacking me does not change the reality that the more modern term "infringements" is NOT part of our SecondAmendment.
    Last edited by haymarket; 04-20-13 at 08:36 AM.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  7. #387
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:18 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    30,322

    Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    If you are of sound mind and there are no other legal obstacles like felony convictions against you, and you satisfy the laws of your state, yes.
    Then you would have been against Toomey/Manchin....Because in that legislation it didn't specify the individual, it covered the household...So, in that instance, my rights would have been curtailed, effectively banning my lawful ownership....This is confiscation.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  8. #388
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:19 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    90,000

    Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Then you would have been against Toomey/Manchin....Because in that legislation it didn't specify the individual, it covered the household...So, in that instance, my rights would have been curtailed, effectively banning my lawful ownership....This is confiscation.
    First of all - restricting ownership to the mentally ill is NOT confiscation. Perhaps in some gun culture circles that false meme is common, but they are not the same thing.

    Second, You bring up an interesting point that is worth pursuing. I have not read the entire bill. However, in summaries of the bill, it was stated repeatedly that people who were family within your household were not part of the background check mandate when selling or giving a gun to them. But you state that it was.

    This needs to be settled with verifiable evidence.

    I did find this:

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...iminalized-so/


    The amendment, offered by Republican Pat Toomey of Pennsylvania and Democrat Joe Manchin of West Virginia, would have required background checks for private sales at gun shows and on the Internet, two areas that are currently exempt from federal law.

    But it specifically exempted transactions between family members from the background check requirement. So we wondered what circumstances the NRA envisioned that could have "criminalized certain private transfers of firearms."


    .......

    Current law requires checks on purchases only from federally licensed gun dealers. So the Manchin-Toomey amendment attempted to find middle ground -- expanding the checks to gun shows and Internet sales, but not requiring them of family members and friends giving or selling guns to each other.

    ..........

    "As under current law, transfers between family, friends and neighbors do not require background checks. You can give or sell a gun to your brother, your neighbor, your co-worker without a background check. You can post a gun for sale on the cork bulletin board at your church or your job without a background check," a press release from the senators said.

    The amendment itself specifically said background checks wouldn’t be required of family members if "the transfer is made between spouses, between parents or spouses of parents and their children or spouses of their children, between siblings or spouses of siblings, or between grandparents or spouses of grandparents and their grandchildren or spouses of their grandchildren, or between aunts or uncles or their spouses and their nieces or nephews or their spouses, or between first cousins, if the transferor does not know or have reasonable cause to believe that the transferee is prohibited from receiving or possessing a firearm under Federal, State, or local law."

    "It’d have to be pretty distant family" for the background check rule to apply, said Chris Calabrese, legal counsel for the ACLU.
    Last edited by haymarket; 04-20-13 at 09:08 AM.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  9. #389
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Last Seen
    01-27-15 @ 11:37 AM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    8,247

    Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks...[W: 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    That is the Breaking News banner headline on cnn.com.

    Fox News' banner reads: "SENATE REJECTS PLAN EXPANDING GUN BACKGROUNDCHECKS IN 54-46 VOTE"

    Edit: And now there is a full link to include.

    Background check plan defeated in Senate, Obama rips gun bill opponents | Fox News
    Good. Laws restricting the acquisition and possession of arms ought not be made at the federal level. Vermont is not Illinois. The people of each state should exercise such police powers, not the federal government.

  10. #390
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Last Seen
    08-19-16 @ 02:13 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    5,243

    Re: The Senate has defeated a compromise proposal to expand background checks on fire

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I think all of us - of all stripes and persuasions - can find a few people who voice opinions that perhaps cause us serious concern. However, the kind of people you are talking about are the exceptions rather than the rule and have demonstrated no power at all to deliver on their wishes. Taking that into consideration, it is not at all rational to allow ones mind to be controlled or manipulated by a small number of people voicing extreme views which are going nowhere.
    That sounds suspiciously like the old advice to ignore the bully and they will go away. Are you suggesting we pay no attention to the Fienstiens of the world and just go about our day? Because that sounds like a wonderful way to wake up to find things have changed quietly while we slept. By that logic we should have simply ignored the Boston bombings so we didn't provoke them any further. They are, after all, a very small percentage of the fringe who have little chance of accomplishing their goal. Until they do of course.
    Last edited by tech30528; 04-20-13 at 10:17 AM.

Page 39 of 47 FirstFirst ... 293738394041 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •