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Thread: Obama sends former officials to Thatcher funeral

  1. #321
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    Re: Obama sends former officials to Thatcher funeral

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    You are correct on both counts: there cannot be Brit neocons and you are (apparently) ignorant.
    This is beyond stupid, the poli/sci philosophy of neoconservatism is not bound by geographic or cultural locations, anyone can adopt a neoconservative mindset.

    Niall Ferguson is going to be very disappointed to read this.

    Kristol was indeed never a liberal, but his father, Irving Kristol, was once quite the lefty. As I said, neocons are evolved lefties or their children.
    FFS, the example was Bill Krisol....which blows your previous definition out of the water....but I suppose...... LOL....that now it is a matter of hereditary/genetics! The "strain" of neoconsevatism is genetically transferred! In the womb the metamorphosis from liberal to neocon happens and one is born fully formed!

    FFS, and there are people here who consider you a Very Serious Person.

    Learn first. Then post.
    I think you missed a lot of days, there are a lot of gaps.

    Here is some light reading....

    The British neoconservatives
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  2. #322
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    Re: Obama sends former officials to Thatcher funeral

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    Yes, a delegation of former officials rather than the de rigueur ones. Hence the discussion. Was this yet another faux pas, or was it a deliberate snub?
    I don't think it was a deliberate snub. She has been retired for quite a long time. Sending no one would have been a snub imo.
    "Being President doesn't change who you are, it reveals who you are"

  3. #323
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    Re: Obama sends former officials to Thatcher funeral

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    This is beyond stupid, the poli/sci philosophy of neoconservatism is not bound by geographic or cultural locations, anyone can adopt a neoconservative mindset.

    Niall Ferguson is going to be very disappointed to read this.

    FFS, the example was Bill Krisol....which blows your previous definition out of the water....but I suppose...... LOL....that now it is a matter of hereditary/genetics! The "strain" of neoconsevatism is genetically transferred! In the womb the metamorphosis from liberal to neocon happens and one is born fully formed!

    FFS, and there are people here who consider you a Very Serious Person.

    I think you missed a lot of days, there are a lot of gaps.

    Here is some light reading....

    The British neoconservatives
    Please work on your reading comprehension. I wrote in my first post that the neoconservatives were former lefties or the children of former lefties. You need a memory span longer than fifteen minutes to play here. Because neoconservatism developed from a very small circle of mostly New York-based intellectuals, family ties were indeed significant. When you mock this you merely parade your ignorance.

    Strictly speaking, the New Statesman is misusing the term "neoconservative" because it applies to a specific turn in American intellectual history. I will be charitable and grant that they are speaking only of ideas similar to those advanced by the neoconservatives. There cannot be a British neoconservative any more than there can be a British Gaullist.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  4. #324
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    Re: Obama sends former officials to Thatcher funeral

    The term "neoconservative" was popularized in the United States during 1973 by Socialist leader Michael Harrington, who used the term to define Daniel Bell, Daniel Patrick Moynihan, and Irving Kristol, whose ideologies differed from Harrington's.[6]

    The "neoconservative" label was used by Irving Kristol in his 1979 article "Confessions of a True, Self-Confessed 'Neoconservative.'"[7] His ideas have been influential since the 1950s, when he co-founded and edited the magazine Encounter.[8] Another source was Norman Podhoretz, editor of the magazine Commentary from 1960 to 1995. By 1982 Podhoretz was terming himself a neoconservative, in a New York Times Magazine article titled "The Neoconservative Anguish over Reagan's Foreign Policy".[9][10] During the late 1970s and early 1980s, the neoconservatives considered that liberalism had failed and "no longer knew what it was talking about, " according to E. J. Dionne.[11]

    The term neoconservative, which was used originally by a socialist to criticize the politics of Social Democrats, USA,[12] has since 1980 been used as a criticism against proponents of American modern liberalism who had become slightly more conservative[7][13]

    The term "neoconservative" was the subject of increased media coverage during the presidency of George W. Bush,[14][15] with particular emphasis on a perceived neoconservative influence on American foreign policy, as part of the Bush Doctrine.[16] The term neocon is often used as pejorative in this context.

    Through the 1950s and early 1960s the future neoconservatives had endorsed the American Civil Rights Movement, racial integration, and Martin Luther King, Jr..[17] From the 1950s to the 1960s, there was general endorsement among liberals for military action to prevent a communist victory in Vietnam.[18]

    Neoconservatism was initiated by the repudiation of coalition politics by the American New Left: Black Power, which denounced coalition-politics and racial integration as "selling out" and "Uncle Tomism" and which frequently generated anti-semitic slogans; "anti-anticommunism", which seemed indifferent to the fate of South Vietnam, and which during the late 1960s included substantial endorsement of Marxist Leninist politics; and the "new politics" of the New left, which considered students and alienated minorities as the main agents of social change (replacing the majority of the population and labor activists).[19] Irving Kristol edited the journal The Public Interest (19652005), featuring economists and political scientists, which emphasized ways that government planning in the liberal state had produced unintended harmful consequences.[20]

    Norman Podhoretz's magazine Commentary of the American Jewish Committee, originally a journal of liberalism, became a major publication for neoconservatives during the 1970s. Commentary published an article by Jeane Kirkpatrick, an early and prototypical neoconservative, albeit not a New Yorker.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  5. #325
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    Re: Obama sends former officials to Thatcher funeral

    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  6. #326
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    Re: Obama sends former officials to Thatcher funeral

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Please work on your reading comprehension. I wrote in my first post that the neoconservatives were former lefties or the children of former lefties. You need a memory span longer than fifteen minutes to play here. Because neoconservatism developed from a very small circle of mostly New York-based intellectuals, family ties were indeed significant. When you mock this you merely parade your ignorance.

    Strictly speaking, the New Statesman is misusing the term "neoconservative" because it applies to a specific turn in American intellectual history. I will be charitable and grant that they are speaking only of ideas similar to those advanced by the neoconservatives. There cannot be a British neoconservative any more than there can be a British Gaullist.
    You just keep on compounding the errors while you dig yourself deeper, there is no doubt about WHEN and WHO advanced the poli/sci ideology of neoconservatism, but this idea that it can only be shared via geographic location or through....OF ALL THINGS....genetics(!?!) is just the height of absurdity. There are conservatives of the past that lived and developed their ideas in England that American conservatives have adopted and developed, no one would be so silly as to put forward the proposition that conservative ideology can only be claimed by people of England.

    The basic tenants of low taxation, an aggressive use of military force to further a dominant economic/strategic position, a disdain for international diplomacy, a tolerance towards the size of govt and welfare, a moralistic view towards social policy.....are not restricted to a particular place or family.

    PS...since one the main tenants of Gaullism was the retaining of French Colonies, it would be tough to find large numbers of Brits who would be followers, but that not to say there were absolutely none....
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  7. #327
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    Re: Obama sends former officials to Thatcher funeral

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    You just keep on compounding the errors while you dig yourself deeper, there is no doubt about WHEN and WHO advanced the poli/sci ideology of neoconservatism, but this idea that it can only be shared via geographic location or through....OF ALL THINGS....genetics(!?!) is just the height of absurdity. There are conservatives of the past that lived and developed their ideas in England that American conservatives have adopted and developed, no one would be so silly as to put forward the proposition that conservative ideology can only be claimed by people of England.

    The basic tenants of low taxation, an aggressive use of military force to further a dominant economic/strategic position, a disdain for international diplomacy, a tolerance towards the size of govt and welfare, a moralistic view towards social policy.....are not restricted to a particular place or family.

    PS...since one the main tenants of Gaullism was the retaining of French Colonies, it would be tough to find large numbers of Brits who would be followers, but that not to say there were absolutely none....
    I have not limited the means by which the views comprising neoconservatism can be shared; Jeanne Kirkpatrick is a case in point. I have said that because neoconservatism is an explicitly and specifically American stream of political thought, the term is inappropriate when applied outside the U.S. And the word is "tenets". Tenants pay rent. I suppose your second paragraph is intended to be a summary of neoconservative views; if so it is inaccurate.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Obama sends former officials to Thatcher funeral

    Quote Originally Posted by Carleen View Post
    I don't think it was a deliberate snub. She has been retired for quite a long time. Sending no one would have been a snub imo.
    Being retired is not being dead. It was a huge funeral for one of the most important leaders in British history. Barrack Obama went out of his way to demonstrate what a piddling little man he is.

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    Re: Obama sends former officials to Thatcher funeral

    Quote Originally Posted by Carleen View Post
    I don't think it was a deliberate snub. She has been retired for quite a long time. Sending no one would have been a snub imo.
    Being retired is not being dead. It was a huge funeral for one of the most important leaders in British history. Barrack Obama went out of his way to demonstrate what a piddling little man he is.

  10. #330
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    Re: Obama sends former officials to Thatcher funeral

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    Yes, a delegation of former officials rather than the de rigueur ones. Hence the discussion. Was this yet another faux pas, or was it a deliberate snub?
    She was a former official too.
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