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Mother of Sandy Hook Victim Delivers White House Weekly Address.....[W322]

Yes, I know you live in a world of fear and paranoia, completely disconnected from reality. Could you please tell me what that's like?

I didn't say they should. Could you please quit wasting everyone's time with comments completely unrelated to what has been said?

If the current laws are not enforced, why are you so scared of new ones passing?

Isn't empty rhetoric fun?


Please go back and read the entire thread of the conversation. What I said is that these new laws would not effect (I do not believe) anyone who currently owns a gun. When you made your statement about ex post facto laws, you were siding with me.

I really get tired of your idiotic claims that those of us who don't buy into your anti gun nonsense (nonsense that appears to be the spawn of ignorance and a hatred of conservatives) are paranoid. The paranoia I see comes from people who are afraid of their neighbors owning guns

and I cannot help it if you don't understand that those who abide by the laws don't want silly laws that only we will follow

I aslo oppose laws that are not constitutional
 
Yes, I know you live in a world of fear and paranoia, completely disconnected from reality. Could you please tell me what that's like?
Asinine, combative, cognitive content= zero

I didn't say they should. Could you please quit wasting everyone's time with comments completely unrelated to what has been said?
Registration laws, which you can bet will ensue with costs attached indicates you are lying and obviously so.

If the current laws are not enforced, why are you so scared of new ones passing?
Because citizens will get ensnared in legal hassles in attmepting to comply with a maze of gun control laws that dont really control gun violence.

Isn't empty rhetoric fun?
About as much as snarky bull****.
 
I really get tired of your idiotic claims that those of us who don't buy into your anti gun nonsense (nonsense that appears to be the spawn of ignorance and a hatred of conservatives) are paranoid. The paranoia I see comes from people who are afraid of their neighbors owning guns
:lamo

My idiotic claims? You have been speaking for millions of "anti gun extremists" telling us the only reason we want to ban guns is because A) we are terrified of guns or B) we want to enslave you.

Your posts very clearly indicate a mentality which does not co-exist with reality. I'm not here to hassle you, I'm not here to advocate government enslaving you and I'm certainly not here because I feel inferior to you. I'm here because I see a real problem and believe in a very logical step to minimize the problem.
and I cannot help it if you don't understand that those who abide by the laws don't want silly laws that only we will follow
I've already addressed this multiple times, to explain where your logic has to take a leap in order get from point A to point B.
 
Update on the gun control debate in Congress:

Obama-backed Gun Control Bill Unlikely to Pass

Yep......I had put thread up on it. Hopefully......it is going nowhere now. Which then Obama will lose for 3rd time over his gun issue. My only question is.....now what will Obama do. Knowing he has lost and while using his devious tactics and that there is nothing more he can do.

The Demos are so desperate over it now. They are willing to even push back the date of the vote. All due to not having the votes.
 
I think taking steps to minimize their chance of being murdered is caring about them. But, that aside, I'm not advocating any system which prevents them from purchasing a gun. I'm merely advocating a reasonable and logical system which encourages safety.

You are proposing interference in people's ability to acquire, keep, and bear arms. This impacts their ability to effectively defend their life and property. You must realize that you are the aggressor in this scenario, and you should not be shocked at people's reactions to your proposed interference.
 
:lamo

My idiotic claims? You have been speaking for millions of "anti gun extremists" telling us the only reason we want to ban guns is because A) we are terrified of guns or B) we want to enslave you.

Your posts very clearly indicate a mentality which does not co-exist with reality. I'm not here to hassle you, I'm not here to advocate government enslaving you and I'm certainly not here because I feel inferior to you. I'm here because I see a real problem and believe in a very logical step to minimize the problem.
I've already addressed this multiple times, to explain where your logic has to take a leap in order get from point A to point B.

opinion noted and rejected based on almost 40 years of dealing with those like you. You cannot give us rational arguments why what you want will solve problems (other than harassing gun owners which is your main goal). we have evidence that demonstrates what you want has not worked in the past.

what do history teachers preach

those who do not study the failures in history repeat those failures? but when the failure is based on ulterior motives, telling the proponents that a law failed to enhance public safety has no impact because public safety is not the real goal

there is far more evidence liberalized carry permits have decreased crime compared to restrictions on honest people. Based on that, if public safety was your true goal you'd be demanding that may issue states adopt SHALL issue laws
 
I'm here because I see a real problem and believe in a very logical step to minimize the problem.

So, please tell us how making it harder for law abiding citizens to obtain a gun for what ever reason, sport, hunting, protection, etc. would solve the "problem", or even is a logical step to begin with.
 
Asinine, combative, cognitive content= zero
And yet, accurate. Have you even read some of his posts? He lives in fear, he's basically admitted it. He sees "gun grabbers" behind every door and in every corner. It's entirely accurate.

Registration laws, which you can bet will ensue with costs attached indicates you are lying and obviously so.
I've already said I would support tax money covering the costs of my ideas of control. So that would make me someone telling the truth, not lying.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...te-house-weekly-address-5.html#post1061697800

Because citizens will get ensnared in legal hassles in attmepting to comply with a maze of gun control laws that dont really control gun violence.
:lamo

This doesn't even make sense.

About as much as snarky bull****.
I'll make you a deal. You (and others) don't resort to empty worthless rhetoric and I won't post snarky bull****. Deal?
You are proposing interference in people's ability to acquire, keep, and bear arms.
The 2nd Amendment says nothing about acquiring. You cannot just automatically wish for that to be included in the 2nd Amendment when it's not.

So yes, I'm advocating a system which in no way infringes upon any rights. My system does make it more difficult for you to purchase (but does not prohibit), but does nothing for those who already own.

You must realize that you are the aggressor in this scenario, and you should not be shocked at people's reactions to your proposed interference.
I'm not the aggressor with regards to those who already own a gun. Those people do not change. And we limit what people can purchase all the time. So I guess you could say I'm the aggressor simply because I'm proposing change, but then you'd also have to say the others are being obstinate, for refusing to change.

opinion noted and rejected based on almost 40 years of dealing with those like you.
You clearly have no idea what people want. For you to continue to claim you do is beyond absurd and, as I said, reeks of paranoia.
So, please tell us how making it harder for law abiding citizens to obtain a gun for what ever reason, sport, hunting, protection, etc. would solve the "problem", or even is a logical step to begin with.
It wouldn't and I have.

To fully understand my previous sentence, please go back and read the posts I've made in which I explain it.
 
The 2nd Amendment says nothing about acquiring. You cannot just automatically wish for that to be included in the 2nd Amendment when it's not.

I made no claims regarding the 2nd amendment. I'm simply pointing out that your suggestion interferes with people's ability to acquire, keep, and bear arms. Thus, you are proposing to interfere with people's ability to effectively defend themselves. You should not then be surprised when people regard you as the attacker that you in fact are.

So yes, I'm advocating a system which in no way infringes upon any rights. My system does make it more difficult for you to purchase (but does not prohibit), but does nothing for those who already own.

Your proposal places obstacles in the way of acquiring the means of effective self-defense.
 
And yet, accurate. Have you even read some of his posts? He lives in fear, he's basically admitted it. He sees "gun grabbers" behind every door and in every corner. It's entirely accurate.

Actually hes accurate. Registration, in every instance its been used, has been the roadmap for confiscation because officials knew where the legal guns were and later obtained the ability to take them. So to say it cannot happen when it HAS happened in every other instance is more than a little dinsingenuous on your part.

I've already said I would support tax money covering the costs of my ideas of control. So that would make me someone telling the truth, not lying.
After you attempted to not understand what I was talking about. I dont care what YOUR ideas on the subject are, I already know what democrats will do--they will see gun owners as a group they can isolate and tax as much and as hard as they want to, not recognizing this will raise barriers to others to obtain a gun for their self defense.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...te-house-weekly-address-5.html#post1061697800

:lamo

This doesn't even make sense.
It makes complete sense, if you are a gun owner and recognize that gun control states dont respect the rights of gun owners in other states when it comes to gun transport, sale, and registration.

I'll make you a deal. You (and others) don't resort to empty worthless rhetoric and I won't post snarky bull****. Deal?
You are forgetting I read this thread, you cant seem to help yourself.

The 2nd Amendment says nothing about acquiring. You cannot just automatically wish for that to be included in the 2nd Amendment when it's not.

So yes, I'm advocating a system which in no way infringes upon any rights. My system does make it more difficult for you to purchase (but does not prohibit), but does nothing for those who already own.
Aquiring would as a neccessity be part of the keep and bear portion. The fact you are engaging in hair splitting shows how little legal ground you have to tread upon. Infringing upon a right is restricting it, it doesnt have to prohibit it in order to infringe. Thats extremely basic and always ignored by control advocates.

I'm not the aggressor with regards to those who already own a gun. Those people do not change. And we limit what people can purchase all the time. So I guess you could say I'm the aggressor simply because I'm proposing change, but then you'd also have to say the others are being obstinate, for refusing to change.

Im sorry I expect the generations to come after me to have the same freedoms I do. If you feel differently, maybe you shouldnt have the right of assembly or free speech, oh, wait, your grandkids shouldnt. Its an absurd argument when applied to any other right.

You clearly have no idea what people want. For you to continue to claim you do is beyond absurd and, as I said, reeks of paranoia.
Judgement call and yours is clearly impaired---see paragraph immediately above.

It wouldn't and I have.
Registration with ANY cost attached most definitely will as will your so called grandfather clauses.

To fully understand my previous sentence, please go back and read the posts I've made in which I explain it.
Why bother? You are splitting hairs, denying basic facts and thinking your liberal allies will apply your principles to the legislation when we know from hard experience in so many other areas that they will not. Give a liberal democrat an ability to tax and they will wield it without limit. Give a liberal democrat an ability to restrict and they will five more related items they want to restrict. Trust is something earned, and liberals are deep in the red on this issue.
 
Just out of curiosity, do any of you gun supporters believe in any type of limitation on gun rights?
 
Just out of curiosity, do any of you gun supporters believe in any type of limitation on gun rights?

Those who commit violent felonies and mentally unstable persons.

There should be more than a doctor's say so on removal of gun rights, a review board is probably the best solution. Removal of rights should occur via notification in writing and verbally so it is understood what is occurring.

The problem I am quickly finding is that open carry is deemed "suspicious" (read subject to arrest and confiscation irregardless of legality) and concealed carry is a multiple hoop process leaving the ability to protect yourself one that is onerous to a gun owner when it shouldnt be.
 
Those who commit violent felonies and mentally unstable persons.

There should be more than a doctor's say so on removal of gun rights, a review board is probably the best solution. Removal of rights should occur via notification in writing and verbally so it is understood what is occurring.

The problem I am quickly finding is that open carry is deemed "suspicious" (read subject to arrest and confiscation irregardless of legality) and concealed carry is a multiple hoop process leaving the ability to protect yourself one that is onerous to a gun owner when it shouldnt be.

So from what I am understanding the answer is no because the limitations would breach your 2nd amendment rights ???

Is that fair to say ???
 
I made no claims regarding the 2nd amendment.
Fair enough.

I'm simply pointing out that your suggestion interferes with people's ability to acquire, keep, and bear arms. Thus, you are proposing to interfere with people's ability to effectively defend themselves. You should not then be surprised when people regard you as the attacker that you in fact are.
I see what you are saying, but I think your choice of words is incredibly unfair and are prejudicial. I'm not attacking anything, I'm suggesting ways to keep those who would do harm from being able to do harm as easily. An attack suggests an unwarranted and unreasonable action, and I'm not doing such a thing.

Your proposal places obstacles in the way of acquiring the means of effective self-defense.
Someone who is truly wanting a gun for self defense will have no problem hurdling those obstacles, especially with the understanding these obstacles are also a measure of defense.
Actually hes accurate.
No, he's professing a paranoia. I'm not out to enslave him and I don't want to take his guns because I have an inferiority complex. I want to protect myself and other Americans from guns getting into the hands of people who should not have them. There's a big difference.

After you attempted to not understand what I was talking about.
So...I attempted to not understand something you were talking about...even though I had answered it before you brought it up.

I'm not sure I follow.

It makes complete sense, if you are a gun owner and recognize that gun control states dont respect the rights of gun owners in other states when it comes to gun transport, sale, and registration.
No, it doesn't. The first comment was why pass new laws which aren't enforced, at which point I said if the laws aren't enforced, why are you so concerned about them?

Your comment did not make sense. You're just repeating talking points.

You are forgetting I read this thread, you cant seem to help yourself.
I've engaged in mature and civil discussion with a few different posters in this thread. It's only when I deal with people who do not engage in the same type of discussion that I become annoyed and "snarky".

As I said though, if you just discuss that actual topics and do not regurgitate rhetoric, I'll be happy to discuss this maturely with you. But that DOES require you to realize you cannot just keep repeating talking points without thinking how they actually apply to what I'm talking about.

Do you accept this deal?
 
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So from what I am understanding the answer is no because the limitations would breach your 2nd amendment rights ???

Is that fair to say ???

What kind of response is this? I just gave you some restrictions upon 2nd ammendment rights vis a vis felons and those under mental treatment. How the heck do you read that as no restrictions?
 
Fair enough.

I see what you are saying, but I think your choice of words is incredibly unfair and are prejudicial. I'm not attacking anything, I'm suggesting ways to keep those who would do harm from being able to do harm as easily. An attack suggests an unwarranted and unreasonable action, and I'm not doing such a thing.
Attack doesnt always suggest unreasonable or unwarranted, it suggests to assail or challenge and you most certainly are. Yet more hairsplitting because you dont like the characterization of what you are doing.

Someone who is truly wanting a gun for self defense will have no problem hurdling those obstacles, especially with the understanding these obstacles are also a measure of defense.
No, he's professing a paranoia. I'm not out to enslave him and I don't want to take his guns because I have an inferiority complex. I want to protect myself and other Americans from guns getting into the hands of people who should not have them. There's a big difference.
Except they shouldnt have to face a lot of obstacles. Arent you the one saying aquisition is different from keeping and bearing arms? Youre talking out of both sides of your mouth.

So...I attempted to not understand something you were talking about...even though I had answered it before you brought it up.

I'm not sure I follow.
Dont make an asinine response indicating non comprehension then.
No, it doesn't. The first comment was why pass new laws which aren't enforced, at which point I said if the laws aren't enforced, why are you so concerned about them?

Your comment did not make sense. You're just repeating talking points.
Transport, sale, ownership and registration varies greatly from state to state---I would be for federal guidelines to make some uniformity from state on gun laws.

I've engaged in mature and civil discussion with a few different posters in this thread. It's only when I deal with people who do not engage in the same type of discussion that I become annoyed and "snarky".
Ive been mature and civil throughout. Your posting patterns are peppered with snark and hairsplitting to avoid substance. Stones and glass houses.

As I said though, if you just discuss that actual topics and do not regurgitate rhetoric, I'll be happy to discuss this maturely with you. But that DOES require you to realize you cannot just keep repeating talking points without thinking how they actually apply to what I'm talking about.

Do you accept this deal?

I do not. Civil discussion is not subject to you framing the discussion in YOUR terms. You are engaging in talking points every bit as much as everyone else. Get over it.
 
What kind of response is this? I just gave you some restrictions upon 2nd ammendment rights vis a vis felons and those under mental treatment. How the heck do you read that as no restrictions?

Without universal background checks your "restrictions" are meaningless. So I'm afraid that makes you a liar.
 
What kind of response is this? I just gave you some restrictions upon 2nd ammendment rights vis a vis felons and those under mental treatment. How the heck do you read that as no restrictions?

Because what you are requesting requires background checks and I am assuming that is a non starting for pro gun advocates like yourself since everyone is making a big stink about it now. Most of you believe that background checks are a breach to your 2nd amendment rights.


So I am asking how do you keep criminals from purchasing guns without background checks???
 
Without universal background checks your "restrictions" are meaningless. So I'm afraid that makes you a liar.


agreed

And that is why I ask that question. I honestly do not think there are any limitation on gun rights that the pro gun crowd agrees with. In fact, many of them would say the solution is to arm more people with guns. The universal background check will not get the votes it need to pass because the NRA has scared the s*** out of politicians (both democrats and republicans).

I see our streets looking like this in less then 20 years at this rate.

Rebel-fighters-shoot-into-009.jpg


2012-08-22T142203Z_1708891558_GM1E88M1Q2P01_RTRMADP_3_SYRIA-CRISIS.JPG


This is a gun retailer's wet dream.
 
Now who's engaging in fear mongering?

The entire problem with universal checks is what the government does with them after they have them. Checks should be destroyed after they are verified but retained if they are denied.
In what world do you think we could have government restraint of that level? Because it doesnt exist in modern society.
 
Now who's engaging in fear mongering?

The entire problem with universal checks is what the government does with them after they have them. Checks should be destroyed after they are verified but retained if they are denied.
In what world do you think we could have government restraint of that level? Because it doesnt exist in modern society.


So what would stop that scenario from happening? Americans are paranoid by nature and I can truly see (especially in Texas) citizens loading up on armory. Keep in mind, many of them are doing it now in fear of a government take over.
 
Without universal background checks your "restrictions" are meaningless. So I'm afraid that makes you a liar.

That's a truly false accusation and it should be withdrawn. The man explained exactly what he meant and if you don't understand it then the problem lies with yourself.
 
That's a truly false accusation and it should be withdrawn. The man explained exactly what he meant and if you don't understand it then the problem lies with yourself.

How can any restrictions be enforced without those checks? Tell me how and I will withdraw the comment. 40% of guns being sold without any checking at all makes a mockery of the whole system. I think that is the point of keeping it as is. Because it is a joke. A deadly joke.
 
I do not.
I see. So you're not really interested in good debate, you just wanted to keep repeating empty rhetoric which solves nothing. Aside from the next statement I make which accurately points out how you completely undermine your own argument, there's really nothing left to say since you're not interested in civil discourse.

Those who commit violent felonies and mentally unstable persons.
:lamo

There are very few people who so openly and willingly destroy their own argument quite like gun supporters. Apparently not infringing 2nd Amendment rights only apply to certain Americans, not all of them.

Just out of curiosity, how are you going to make sure those who are mentally ill aren't able to purchase a gun? And what if they already have a gun, and then they begin treatment for bipolar disorder, what do you do then?
 
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