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Thread: Mother of Sandy Hook Victim Delivers White House Weekly Address.....[W322]

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    re: Mother of Sandy Hook Victim Delivers White House Weekly Address.....[W322]

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    This is phony as hell and out of context. You want to be able to decide what is and isnt talking points, you want to frame the conversation so only the talking points of YOUR side are heard. So no I cant agree to let you set the boundaries for what I can say. Your little outrage about rhetoric and talking points is something you only want to apply to the other guy so I not only refuse your offer you can shove it.
    That fits in perfectly with what Obama is doing because how dare anyone speak out against a grieving mother.

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    re: Mother of Sandy Hook Victim Delivers White House Weekly Address.....[W322]

    Quote Originally Posted by MACS-24 View Post
    How does defending a right relate to curing cancer
    That's not what I said. In the post of mine you quoted, I was talking to those who were aghast at the idea a politician would allow a private citizen to speak out on an issue he/she felt strongly about. I pointed out that most people probably didn't care about the fact this private citizen was allowed to deliver the address, just simply the fact they didn't agree with what she said. If she had been advocating for cancer no one would have cared that Obama was putting a human face on the issue and I seriously doubt people would have been calling her a prostitute.

    By the way, I've seen gun supporters actually advocating suppressing 2nd Amendment rights in this thread. So I'm really confused on what argument some of the pro gun people are actually making at this point.

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    re: Mother of Sandy Hook Victim Delivers White House Weekly Address.....[W322]

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    By the way, I've seen gun supporters actually advocating suppressing 2nd Amendment rights in this thread. So I'm really confused on what argument some of the pro gun people are actually making at this point.
    Thats easy. The point is that there are solutions to gun control that are viable. The problem is they are not sledgehammer solutions, they are scalpel solutions. Your problem and many like you only want and only see the sledgehammer solutions. Thats also simple, this is about political power every bit as it is about gun rights, gun control, and gun victims.

    Manchin-Toomey presented an 884 page bill. Hello, sledgehammer. Pass piecemeal solutions to address the real problem and that is mentally disturbed people getting ahold of guns and committing mass murder at schools because they are easy, gun free zones. That is what needs addressed. That is the problem that needs solved.

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    re: Mother of Sandy Hook Victim Delivers White House Weekly Address.....[W322]

    Looks like the Victim Mother of Sandy Hook was given a real message today.....to bad it isn't sinking in!

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    re: Mother of Sandy Hook Victim Delivers White House Weekly Address.....[W322]

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    I see what you are saying, but I think your choice of words is incredibly unfair and are prejudicial. I'm not attacking anything, I'm suggesting ways to keep those who would do harm from being able to do harm as easily. An attack suggests an unwarranted and unreasonable action, and I'm not doing such a thing.
    You're not doing personally, no. But you are suggesting that government force be used to effect prior restraint on people's peaceful behavior. This restrain consists of edicts that, if not not followed, will result in an attack.

    Someone who is truly wanting a gun for self defense will have no problem hurdling those obstacles, especially with the understanding these obstacles are also a measure of defense.
    You don't regard the obstacles as significant. Others do.
    Last edited by Federalist; 04-18-13 at 06:52 AM.

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    re: Mother of Sandy Hook Victim Delivers White House Weekly Address.....[W322]

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    That's not what I said. In the post of mine you quoted, I was talking to those who were aghast at the idea a politician would allow a private citizen to speak out on an issue he/she felt strongly about. I pointed out that most people probably didn't care about the fact this private citizen was allowed to deliver the address, just simply the fact they didn't agree with what she said. If she had been advocating for cancer no one would have cared that Obama was putting a human face on the issue and I seriously doubt people would have been calling her a prostitute.

    By the way, I've seen gun supporters actually advocating suppressing 2nd Amendment rights in this thread. So I'm really confused on what argument some of the pro gun people are actually making at this point.
    That is what you said. Your trying to compare someone advocating removing a right that helps only the criminals to curing cancer, a disease, that would help EVERYONE. Obviously, everyone is for cancer cure and the only looser is cancer. - Bad comparison.

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    re: Mother of Sandy Hook Victim Delivers White House Weekly Address.....[W322]

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Thats easy. The point is that there are solutions to gun control that are viable. The problem is they are not sledgehammer solutions, they are scalpel solutions. Your problem and many like you only want and only see the sledgehammer solutions. Thats also simple, this is about political power every bit as it is about gun rights, gun control, and gun victims.

    Manchin-Toomey presented an 884 page bill. Hello, sledgehammer. Pass piecemeal solutions to address the real problem and that is mentally disturbed people getting ahold of guns and committing mass murder at schools because they are easy, gun free zones. That is what needs addressed. That is the problem that needs solved.
    Thank you for a quality post absent empty rhetoric.

    However, I'm very curious as to how you can claim to stand for 2nd Amendment rights for law abiding citizens, and then actively work to remove 2nd Amendment rights for law abiding citizens, just because you fear them (and how that differs from the perception pro gun people have of pro gun control people). That's not an attack, it's an honest question. You claimed you would have the law determine who could not be able to own a gun, so essentially you made the argument the government should get to decide which law abiding citizens get to own a gun.

    Does that not defeat the basic premise of 2nd Amendment rights?

    As far as your sledgehammer goes, you do realize that quite a bit of that legislation actually supported gun rights, correct? I don't think the Manchin-Toomey bill was a sledgehammer nearly as much as it was a flyswatter with a hole in the middle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    You're not doing personally, no. But you are suggesting that government force be used to effect prior restraint on people's peaceful behavior.
    Not really. I'm looking to provide restraint on people's violent behavior. If you could promise me another person would never again be harmed by a gun, I would not care about stronger gun laws.

    You don't regard the obstacles as significant. Others do.
    And I find the opinion of those to think these obstacles as significant to be silly. We register items with the government all the time. We require background checks for employees in government positions (and many times private jobs) all the time. Every person in this country is likely registered with the government. I find it silly to say that an instrument which is designed to cause destruction should not be more regulated. The idea that as many as 40% of gun purchases in this country are made absent a background check is absurd. But more than absurd, it's dangerous.
    Quote Originally Posted by MACS-24 View Post
    That is what you said. Your trying to compare someone advocating removing a right that helps only the criminals to curing cancer, a disease, that would help EVERYONE. Obviously, everyone is for cancer cure and the only looser is cancer. - Bad comparison.
    That's not what I said. Just because you want to make an empty point, that doesn't mean you get to change the facts.

    My point was CLEARLY about pointing out that most people really didn't care that this woman got to speak, but rather what she spoke about. It's right there in front of you. I wasn't comparing cancer, I was pointing out the faux outrage being expressed in this thread.
    Last edited by Slyfox696; 04-18-13 at 09:28 AM.

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    re: Mother of Sandy Hook Victim Delivers White House Weekly Address.....[W322]

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    That's not what I said. Just because you want to make an empty point, that doesn't mean you get to change the facts.

    My point was CLEARLY about pointing out that most people really didn't care that this woman got to speak, but rather what she spoke about. It's right there in front of you. I wasn't comparing cancer, I was pointing out the faux outrage being expressed in this thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    I suspect most of the people who find this "exploitative" "disgusting" etc. probably do so not because of what happened, but rather because of what the issue is. My guess is if this woman was making the address to encourage awareness (and/or additional funding) about breast cancer because her sister died from cancer, most of you would not care. I cannot prove this in anyway, but it's my suspicion.
    Obviously people would not be outraged and it is still a bad comparison.

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    re: Mother of Sandy Hook Victim Delivers White House Weekly Address.....[W322]

    Quote Originally Posted by MACS-24 View Post
    Obviously people would not be outraged
    Exactly. Which just shows most of the people who were acting outraged at the idea Obama was "exploiting" this woman for personal gain really didn't care. They just cared it wasn't something they supported. Thank you for agreeing with me.


    and it is still a bad comparison.
    I wasn't comparing them. I was pointing out ridiculousness with parallel example.

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    re: Mother of Sandy Hook Victim Delivers White House Weekly Address.....[W322]

    Instead of getting guns off the streets, Obama and law enforcement agencies should be working harder to get criminals and crazy people off the streets.

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