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Thread: Mother of Sandy Hook Victim Delivers White House Weekly Address.....[W322]

  1. #181
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    re: Mother of Sandy Hook Victim Delivers White House Weekly Address.....[W322]

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    I'm not talking about concealed carry, I'm talking about purchasing the gun in the first place. Your decision to carry concealed is a decision you make and is not a right protected under any section of the Constitution.

    Things such as a background check for all purchases, training required before obtaining a gun, a gun registry, etc. are all inconvenient, but none of them, on their own, prohibit you from obtaining a firearm legally (if you pass).

    Safety.
    Many of them do, actually. For example, you have to show proof of identification to vote. If you don't have ID, then you don't get to vote.
    "...the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed" makes it clear that the 2A right is not simply to buy and store arms in one's home, but to carry them as well. I specifically addressed the "application fee" and not the requirement to first prove oneself "not unworthy" of keeping their individual Constitutional rights. If these tests and conditions are required, for basic Constitutional rights, then their costs should be covered by general taxation, not by "user fees". Is it equally "fair" if states decide to raise "extra" revenue by requiring go to church permits or have an attorney present during police questioning permits?
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  2. #182
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    re: Mother of Sandy Hook Victim Delivers White House Weekly Address.....[W322]

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    I find many of the comments in this thread to be quite disgusting. The fact you are so concerned about your inanimate object you are willing to demonize a mother who lost a child who is trying to help prevent other mothers from losing children, and the President who is giving her a platform to express herself, is appalling to me.

    You can disagree with her and the President on gun control. But to demonize them in such a manner for disagreeing with you is something I'll never understand, and to me, just reeks of illogical fear over losing an inanimate object.
    I agree 100%.

    I am just stunned at the comments that are being made on here. This goes beyond politics. All I can say is that I'm praying for you all. I look at my son every morning and still feel sadden about these parents loss because I try to imagine my life without my son and maybe some of you guys should to.

    Sure, gun control is a "Liberal" agenda and I know many of you conservatives believe that anybody who disagrees with you are pimps and whores. But unless your son or daughter took a bullet to the head or chest then you shouldn't act like you know the motives of these parents. By the way, these parents along with others demanded that the President do something about gun control after this incident unless you guys forgotten....

    If these parents feel this strongly about gun control then "respectfully disagree", but calling this mother a political whore is going way out of bounds.

  3. #183
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    re: Mother of Sandy Hook Victim Delivers White House Weekly Address.....[W322]

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    Your comment makes no sense to me. It appears to be nothing but empty rhetoric which does not advance the discussion in any meaningful way. I'd hate to assume this is what you posted, so could you please clarify, so that I may respond more appropriately?
    Yes, perhaps I was too quick to reply, and perhaps I am not familiar enough with your position.

    If safety is the goal, as well it should be, it seems a rather ambitious goal. Can government legislation really make us more safe?

    I am doubtful of that.

    It seems that gun control regulations put in place since RFK's death have done precious little to make anybody at all any safer from the mayhem caused by misuse of firearms. There are many many many examples, but a big example is that of the 'suicidal Vietnam Vet' who started a fire at his house in New York state a few weeks after Newtown, and then planned and executed the killing of several responding firemen. As a convicted felon, the laws prohibit him from having firearms, yet he did, and mayhem and murder ensued. Simply because he was determined to do so.

    Apparently at Newtown, assuming one believes the story, NO gun laws were violated. Legal purchases, we are told.

    Safety was not assured for those involved, as safety was not assured for those at Boston yesterday. Simply put, experience and history teach us that government rules and regulations sound nice, but they do not provide safety.

  4. #184
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    re: Mother of Sandy Hook Victim Delivers White House Weekly Address.....[W322]

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    "...the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed" makes it clear that the 2A right is not simply to buy and store arms in one's home, but to carry them as well.
    But it is NOT to carry them hidden from everyone's view.

    I specifically addressed the "application fee"
    To the concealed carry, which is not what I was talking about.

    and not the requirement to first prove oneself "not unworthy" of keeping their individual Constitutional rights.
    Having the right doesn't mean unfettered access to it. I can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater. I can't question a rape victim's sexual history. I can't vote without proof of identification.

    If these tests and conditions are required, for basic Constitutional rights, then their costs should be covered by general taxation, not by "user fees".
    Okay. I'm fine with that. I have no problems with raising taxes to meet the needs of society, nor do I have a problem paying a little extra in taxes to prevent crimes being committed.

    Is it equally "fair" if states decide to raise "extra" revenue by requiring go to church permits or have an attorney present during police questioning permits?
    Are those situations a matter of safety and/or ensuring justice?

  5. #185
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    re: Mother of Sandy Hook Victim Delivers White House Weekly Address.....[W322]

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    But it is NOT to carry them hidden from everyone's view.

    To the concealed carry, which is not what I was talking about.

    Having the right doesn't mean unfettered access to it. I can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater. I can't question a rape victim's sexual history. I can't vote without proof of identification.

    Okay. I'm fine with that. I have no problems with raising taxes to meet the needs of society, nor do I have a problem paying a little extra in taxes to prevent crimes being committed.

    Are those situations a matter of safety and/or ensuring justice?
    The state first made open carry of a handgun totally illegal, thus not an "option". Your example of "yelling fire" still requires no advance permit or permission, simply imposes a penalty, after due process, for a violation of the law.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    re: Mother of Sandy Hook Victim Delivers White House Weekly Address.....[W322]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Yes, perhaps I was too quick to reply, and perhaps I am not familiar enough with your position.
    Thank you.

    If safety is the goal, as well it should be, it seems a rather ambitious goal. Can government legislation really make us more safe?
    It is a rather ambitious goal. There's a quote I've read once and I think it's a great quote about ambitious goals:

    ""It is better, I think, to grab at the stars than to sit flustered because you know you cannot reach them...At least he who reaches will get a good stretch, a good view, and perhaps even a low-hanging apple for his efforts."

    This is just a random quote from a book, not written by anyone famous, but I think it's a great outlook on life.

    I am doubtful of that.
    I'd like to think government legislation has already made us safer. For example, I'd first point you to government regulation of the food industry.

    It seems that gun control regulations put in place since RFK's death have done precious little to make anybody at all any safer from the mayhem caused by misuse of firearms. There are many many many examples, but a big example is that of the 'suicidal Vietnam Vet' who started a fire at his house in New York state a few weeks after Newtown, and then planned and executed the killing of several responding firemen. As a convicted felon, the laws prohibit him from having firearms, yet he did, and mayhem and murder ensued. Simply because he was determined to do so.
    But how did he get the gun? Too many people who should not be having guns are getting guns, because there is no real reason for straw buyers to not provide weapons.

    Apparently at Newtown, assuming one believes the story, NO gun laws were violated. Legal purchases, we are told.
    Everything I have heard says this is the case. However, I've also heard the mother legally obtained them by traveling to another state to purchase them, which is something that could not happen under a federal law.

    I'm not sure if that's true or not.

    Safety was not assured for those involved, as safety was not assured for those at Boston yesterday. Simply put, experience and history teach us that government rules and regulations sound nice, but they do not provide safety.
    As I said earlier, we'll never be able to completely end violence or murder. But the goal is to minimize the risk as much as possible. Those who want to purchase a gun can still do so, but it should help crack down on those who would acquire the guns for illegitimate purposes.

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    re: Mother of Sandy Hook Victim Delivers White House Weekly Address.....[W322]

    Finally we here from victims famalies.

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    re: Mother of Sandy Hook Victim Delivers White House Weekly Address.....[W322]

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    The state first made open carry of a handgun totally illegal, thus not an "option".
    Then it appears as if your complaint would go to that, not the fact you have to pay to carry concealed.

    Your example of "yelling fire" still requires no advance permit or permission, simply imposes a penalty, after due process, for a violation of the law.
    Exactly. It is a limitation upon my right of expression. That's the point.

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    re: Mother of Sandy Hook Victim Delivers White House Weekly Address.....[W322]

    Quote Originally Posted by rcart76 View Post
    I agree 100%.

    I am just stunned at the comments that are being made on here. This goes beyond politics. All I can say is that I'm praying for you all. I look at my son every morning and still feel sadden about these parents loss because I try to imagine my life without my son and maybe some of you guys should to.

    Sure, gun control is a "Liberal" agenda and I know many of you conservatives believe that anybody who disagrees with you are pimps and whores. But unless your son or daughter took a bullet to the head or chest then you shouldn't act like you know the motives of these parents. By the way, these parents along with others demanded that the President do something about gun control after this incident unless you guys forgotten....

    If these parents feel this strongly about gun control then "respectfully disagree", but calling this mother a political whore is going way out of bounds.
    it also appears that emotional based appeals tend to be a liberal SOP too. nothing that your side wants would have stopped Lanza. using what Lanza did to pass stuff that only punishes lawful gun owners is not only pathetic, it is illogical



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    re: Mother of Sandy Hook Victim Delivers White House Weekly Address.....[W322]

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    But it is NOT to carry them hidden from everyone's view.
    Local Soldier Says Police Violated His Guns Rights - kcentv.com - KCEN HD - Waco, Temple, and Killeen

    Army Master Sergeant and well known blogger CJ Grisham says he never should have been arrested and his guns never should have been taken away.
    On March 16, Grisham was on a Boy Scout hike with his son on a country road in west Temple.
    He had a loaded assault style rifle strapped across his chest.
    It was legal for him to carry, but a concerned citizen called police.
    At some point, the cop drew his own weapon and pinned Grisham until backup arrived.

    The officers then cuffed him, took his rifle, plus a concealed weapon with valid permit, and took him to jail.
    Grisham's lawyer says Grisham wasn't told at that point what he was being arrested for.

    "An officer has a right to disarm you for his safety if there is a problem, and what we're maintaining is that there was no problem," Glass said.
    But a Temple Police spokesman says the officer did what he had to do to ensure his own safety.
    CPL Chris Wilcox said, "Officers are people too. They have families, they want to go home and see those families. It would be very difficult for an officer to determine immediately who's a threat and who's not a threat when there's a gun involved, especially a high powered weapon, like an assault rifle."
    He also says Grisham should have complied.

    "The actions of the individual are what led to the arrest. If he feels that the officer acted inappropriately or acted in error, there is a judicial process that he's free to follow," Wilcox said.

    In Sec. 411.207, state law says, "A peace officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer's official duties may disarm a license holder at any time the officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the license holder, officer, or another individual. The peace officer shall return the handgun to the license holder before discharging the license holder from the scene if the officer determines that the license holder is not a threat to the officer, license holder, or another individual and if the license holder has not violated any provision of this subchapter or committed any other violation that results in the arrest of the license holder."
    Openly carrying, legally, committing no crime. Arrested, disarmed, weapon confiscated simply because he was carrying it.

    You guys are full of **** about open carry.

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