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Thread: Mother of Sandy Hook Victim Delivers White House Weekly Address.....[W322]

  1. #171
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    re: Mother of Sandy Hook Victim Delivers White House Weekly Address.....[W322]

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    We have no problem with that. We want to eliminate the illegal gun owners. Those who truly want a gun for responsible purposes should have no problem with background checks. They should have no problem with required training to obtain a gun. They should have no problem with their guns being registered.
    Those who are doing the right thing have nothing to hide, right? Who cares if government reads your emails, listens into your calls, makes sure that you are using your first amendment rights 'responsibly', if you are responsible in the first place, you have nothing to worry about.

    No thanks. Illegal Gun Owners by definition aren't going to give a rats' butt about background checks, but legal women who are being stalked will. The idea that you harm the criminal by hampering the non-criminals' ability to defend themselves continues to carry little water with me.

    The more obstacles you can place in front of people who are whimsical in their desire to own a gun, the fewer people you will have running around pointing guns in other people's faces. The more checks you put in front of straw buyers, the fewer guns will be in the hands of irresponsible people.

    Responsible and law abiding gun owners SHOULD support these type of measures. "Crazies", as you have called them, make the rest of you look bad. I would think you'd work for a way to try and stamp down the crazies from reflecting poorly on you, rather than doing everything you can to make sure they can keep getting guns and keep harming people.
    You can put obstacles in front of the law-abiding all you like; it will stop those who do not care about the law already not a whit. Stop for a minute and ponder the ridiculousness of the position that the kind of person who would ignore the laws about murder would be seriously worried over whether or not he should violate the laws on receiving proper weapons handling training and a background check.

  2. #172
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    re: Mother of Sandy Hook Victim Delivers White House Weekly Address.....[W322]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Those who are doing the right thing have nothing to hide, right?
    First of all, that's not at all what I said. What I said is these measures protect your reputation as a responsible gun owner, as well as make the logical sense of reducing gun related crime.

    Who cares if government reads your emails, listens into your calls, makes sure that you are using your first amendment rights 'responsibly', if you are responsible in the first place, you have nothing to worry about.
    Great red herring. Could you please come back to THIS discussion and what I said please?

    No thanks. Illegal Gun Owners by definition aren't going to give a rats' butt about background checks
    You're missing the point. Illegal gun owners are less likely to get the gun. That's the point.

    but legal women who are being stalked will.
    So? They can care and they can get them. My dad's wife carries concealed, it didn't seem to bother her to go through the "hassles" of getting her permit.

    The idea that you harm the criminal by hampering the non-criminals' ability to defend themselves continues to carry little water with me.
    The fact you think that is what I'm saying shows you're obviously not "listening" to me.

    You can put obstacles in front of the law-abiding all you like; it will stop those who do not care about the law already not a whit.
    Let me ask you, where do you think the criminals get their guns? Do they just snap their fingers and guns appear? Are there drive-thru gun shops, where a criminal can obtain a gun the same way I obtain a 32 oz soda? Do you think every potential criminal has a cartel connection in Colombia?

    Stop for a minute and ponder the ridiculousness of the position that the kind of person who would ignore the laws about murder would be seriously worried over whether or not he should violate the laws on receiving proper weapons handling training and a background check.
    No, you stop and consider for a moment exactly where your line of logic has to make a jump over the hole in it. For a hint, look above.

    If you strengthen the laws in obtaining guns, many of those so-called straw buyers tend to lose interest much faster. Register the gun and it's used in a crime, then suddenly the straw buyer becomes legally responsible. If the straw buyer makes a habit of having guns "stolen", then the straw buyer is denied his next firearm. And if a legal gun owner really does have a gun stolen multiple times, then they are not a responsible gun owner.

    As a responsible gun owner, you should be pushing for measures which only allows legitimate gun owners to purchase guns. Will these laws prevent all gun related crimes? Of course not. But there is no doubt in my mind it will lower the gun related crime, while at the same time, not prohibit those who wish to legally and responsibly own a gun from doing so. Will you be more inconvenienced? Absolutely. But I think that's a small price to pay.

  3. #173
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    re: Mother of Sandy Hook Victim Delivers White House Weekly Address.....[W322]

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    First of all, that's not at all what I said. What I said is these measures protect your reputation as a responsible gun owner, as well as make the logical sense of reducing gun related crime.

    Great red herring. Could you please come back to THIS discussion and what I said please?

    You're missing the point. Illegal gun owners are less likely to get the gun. That's the point.

    So? They can care and they can get them. My dad's wife carries concealed, it didn't seem to bother her to go through the "hassles" of getting her permit.

    The fact you think that is what I'm saying shows you're obviously not "listening" to me.

    Let me ask you, where do you think the criminals get their guns? Do they just snap their fingers and guns appear? Are there drive-thru gun shops, where a criminal can obtain a gun the same way I obtain a 32 oz soda? Do you think every potential criminal has a cartel connection in Colombia?

    No, you stop and consider for a moment exactly where your line of logic has to make a jump over the hole in it. For a hint, look above.

    If you strengthen the laws in obtaining guns, many of those so-called straw buyers tend to lose interest much faster. Register the gun and it's used in a crime, then suddenly the straw buyer becomes legally responsible. If the straw buyer makes a habit of having guns "stolen", then the straw buyer is denied his next firearm. And if a legal gun owner really does have a gun stolen multiple times, then they are not a responsible gun owner.

    As a responsible gun owner, you should be pushing for measures which only allows legitimate gun owners to purchase guns. Will these laws prevent all gun related crimes? Of course not. But there is no doubt in my mind it will lower the gun related crime, while at the same time, not prohibit those who wish to legally and responsibly own a gun from doing so. Will you be more inconvenienced? Absolutely. But I think that's a small price to pay.
    Currently, In Texas, it costs about $240 to get a permit to legally carry (concealed only) a handgun, that was already legally purchased and required passing an NICS BG check. That is clearly well beyond being merely inconvenient since a driver's licence, in Texas, costs $24 including the written/practical testing required. Inconvenient is like requiring getting a state issued, photo ID which is considered, by many, to be a discriminatory burden when required in order to vote.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    re: Mother of Sandy Hook Victim Delivers White House Weekly Address.....[W322]

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    First of all, that's not at all what I said. What I said is these measures protect your reputation as a responsible gun owner, as well as make the logical sense of reducing gun related crime.

    Great red herring. Could you please come back to THIS discussion and what I said please?

    You're missing the point. Illegal gun owners are less likely to get the gun. That's the point.

    So? They can care and they can get them. My dad's wife carries concealed, it didn't seem to bother her to go through the "hassles" of getting her permit.

    The fact you think that is what I'm saying shows you're obviously not "listening" to me.

    Let me ask you, where do you think the criminals get their guns? Do they just snap their fingers and guns appear? Are there drive-thru gun shops, where a criminal can obtain a gun the same way I obtain a 32 oz soda? Do you think every potential criminal has a cartel connection in Colombia?

    No, you stop and consider for a moment exactly where your line of logic has to make a jump over the hole in it. For a hint, look above.

    If you strengthen the laws in obtaining guns, many of those so-called straw buyers tend to lose interest much faster. Register the gun and it's used in a crime, then suddenly the straw buyer becomes legally responsible. If the straw buyer makes a habit of having guns "stolen", then the straw buyer is denied his next firearm. And if a legal gun owner really does have a gun stolen multiple times, then they are not a responsible gun owner.

    As a responsible gun owner, you should be pushing for measures which only allows legitimate gun owners to purchase guns. Will these laws prevent all gun related crimes? Of course not. But there is no doubt in my mind it will lower the gun related crime, while at the same time, not prohibit those who wish to legally and responsibly own a gun from doing so. Will you be more inconvenienced? Absolutely. But I think that's a small price to pay.
    A small price to pay for what, exactly?

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    re: Mother of Sandy Hook Victim Delivers White House Weekly Address.....[W322]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    A small price to pay for what, exactly?
    For a basic, individual Constitutional right of the people to keep and bear arms, of course. No price is too big to own/carry a gun and any price is too big for guaranteed medical care, food, clothing and shelter (if one simply has a dependent). The thinking on the left is that the Constitution really means that those who work must help support those that do not, yet must also spend much more to make the "wrong" choice to buy/carry a gun.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    re: Mother of Sandy Hook Victim Delivers White House Weekly Address.....[W322]

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    For a basic, individual Constitutional right of the people to keep and bear arms, of course. No price is too big to own/carry a gun and any price is too big for guaranteed medical care, food, clothing and shelter (if one simply has a dependent). The thinking on the left is that the Constitution really means that those who work must help support those that do not, yet must also spend much more to make the "wrong" choice to buy/carry a gun.
    But don't we already have that right?

  7. #177
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    re: Mother of Sandy Hook Victim Delivers White House Weekly Address.....[W322]

    Want to hear a liberal scream? Apply the same logic and barriers to voting that they want to apply to 2nd Amendment rights.

    All rights have limitations, yeah?

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    re: Mother of Sandy Hook Victim Delivers White House Weekly Address.....[W322]

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Currently, In Texas, it costs about $240 to get a permit to legally carry (concealed only) a handgun, that was already legally purchased and required passing an NICS BG check. That is clearly well beyond being merely inconvenient since a driver's licence, in Texas, costs $24 including the written/practical testing required. Inconvenient is like requiring getting a state issued, photo ID which is considered, by many, to be a discriminatory burden when required in order to vote.
    I'm not talking about concealed carry, I'm talking about purchasing the gun in the first place. Your decision to carry concealed is a decision you make and is not a right protected under any section of the Constitution.

    Things such as a background check for all purchases, training required before obtaining a gun, a gun registry, etc. are all inconvenient, but none of them, on their own, prohibit you from obtaining a firearm legally (if you pass).
    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    A small price to pay for what, exactly?
    Safety.
    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Want to hear a liberal scream? Apply the same logic and barriers to voting that they want to apply to 2nd Amendment rights.

    All rights have limitations, yeah?
    Many of them do, actually. For example, you have to show proof of identification to vote. If you don't have ID, then you don't get to vote.

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    re: Mother of Sandy Hook Victim Delivers White House Weekly Address.....[W322]

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    I'm not talking about concealed carry, I'm talking about purchasing the gun in the first place. Your decision to carry concealed is a decision you make and is not a right protected under any section of the Constitution.

    Things such as a background check for all purchases, training required before obtaining a gun, a gun registry, etc. are all inconvenient, but none of them, on their own, prohibit you from obtaining a firearm legally (if you pass).

    Safety.
    Many of them do, actually.
    Safety? Geez, too bad that law wasn't passed before yesterday. It might have provided some "safety" to those folks at Boston.

  10. #180
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    re: Mother of Sandy Hook Victim Delivers White House Weekly Address.....[W322]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Safety? Geez, too bad that law wasn't passed before yesterday. It might have provided some "safety" to those folks at Boston.
    Your comment makes no sense to me. It appears to be nothing but empty rhetoric which does not advance the discussion in any meaningful way. I'd hate to assume this is what you posted, so could you please clarify, so that I may respond more appropriately?

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