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Thread: Maryland decides to tax residents when it rains

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    Re: Maryland decides to tax residents when it rains

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    No, there is no logic behind the idea that people are better off with the government protecting the people against themselves by punishing them for behavior the government doesn't agree with. Just like the people are not better off by the government subsidizing market activity so that people do what the government wants them to do.
    There's a difference between something that "the government disagrees with" (i.e. censorship) and something that has been objectively been empirically demonstrated to be harmful to the populace (i.e. pollution).
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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    Re: Maryland decides to tax residents when it rains

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Actually, it's both. The pollutant itself is a problem, but it's effect would be far less magnified if surface runoff didn't concentrate its effects. Not to mention that even in the absence of pollution, runoff contributes to erosion and deposition.
    The runoff is just how the pollutant is moving into the water supply. It is not the problem and therefore it makes no sense to fight against it. You appear to have a big problem with nature. You need to work on that. I'm sorry you don't like run off, but its a natural occurrence of the world. Cry to mother nature about it.
    It's only nonsense to you because my conception of "liberty" isn't so narrow as to only include freedom from government coercion, but also the realization that infringements on freedom can occur from private entities as well, market activity often being one of them.
    Business practices can violate the rights of people, and people can violate the rights of people, but market activity can not violate the rights of people. I realize liberals want to tax people when they buy certain things, but there is no justification behind it.
    Last edited by Henrin; 04-12-13 at 02:34 PM.

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    Re: Maryland decides to tax residents when it rains

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    From a number of posts it was pretty apparent that people were confused due to the misleading and biased blog post title and led to believe that this is actually a tax on rain. It is not.
    Correct. It's a tax on impermeable surfaces but I'm not sure how these cause pollution.
    There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences.
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    Re: Maryland decides to tax residents when it rains

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    What about the air we breath?

    Certainly that deserves a tax of some sort.

    Let's call it the "respiratory usage fee."
    You make a joke, but people HAVE proposed carbon emission fees for breathing. They, of course, were singular idiots, but it's been proposed.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Maryland decides to tax residents when it rains

    Quote Originally Posted by Heebie Jeebie View Post
    Correct. It's a tax on impermeable surfaces but I'm not sure how these cause pollution.
    It's inaccurate to say that impervious surfaces CAUSE pollution, but they contribute massively to it. Think about it, in the absence of impervious surfaces, the effects of pollutants (lets used pesticides herbicides and fertilizers for example) are generally diluted because for the most part they just sink into the ground. Now of course it still reaches the water table and the rest of the ecosystem, but what impervious surfaces do is they allow enable rainwater to pool together and collect all the pollutants on the ground in their path and concentrate it, so that when that rainwater reaches the rivers and watershed the effect of the pollution is magnified exponentially. Essentially what this does is concentrate the effect of pollution on bodies of water like rivers and bays rather than allowing the pollution to be dispersed.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 04-12-13 at 03:50 PM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Maryland decides to tax residents when it rains

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    The runoff is just how the pollutant is moving into the water supply. It is not the problem and therefore it makes no sense to fight against it. You appear to have a big problem with nature. You need to work on that. I'm sorry you don't like run off, but its a natural occurrence of the world. Cry to mother nature about it.
    This is about the dumbest post I have seen in weeks. Runoff is a product of impervious surfaces, which unless we are talking about rocks is by definition man-made and not natural. In fact the vast majority of runoff is the product of roads, streets, driveways, roofs, and manmade drainage systems. Runoff itself is a natural process, but the degree to which it is happening and its effects is ultimately manmade.

    Business practices can violate the rights of people, and people can violate the rights of people, but market activity can not violate the rights of people. I realize liberals want to tax people when they buy certain things, but there is no justification behind it.
    There IS a justification behind it. There are real economic costs to pollution that the private market doesn't account for. Just because you think that nobody should be allowed to make up the difference doesn't mean that there is no justification behind it.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 04-12-13 at 03:57 PM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Maryland decides to tax residents when it rains

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    It's inaccurate to say that impervious surfaces CAUSE pollution, but they contribute to it.
    And yet that is what is taxed. Without rain there are no problems with run off from them.

    Of course in many of the places this tax is being put the entity with the largest amount of impervious surfaces is the government. But they don't get taxed, the people who own property do even if nothing runs off their property.
    There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences.
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    Re: Maryland decides to tax residents when it rains

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Some people just know how to live the good life...
    Just let me know when you're headed through, we'd love to host you.
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    Re: Maryland decides to tax residents when it rains

    Quote Originally Posted by Heebie Jeebie View Post
    And yet that is what is taxed. Without rain there are no problems with run off from them.
    Yes, but due to Mother Nature there IS rain, so this is irrelevant.

    Of course in many of the places this tax is being put the entity with the largest amount of impervious surfaces is the government. But they don't get taxed, the people who own property do even if nothing runs off their property.
    I understand what you're getting at, but to tax government is to be redundant.

    And the amount of tax you pay is directly correlated with how much runoff your property generates.

    http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/1370...all-on-houses/

    The fees will be calculated on square footage of surfaces on a property. Backers of the tax say that driveways, roofs, parking lots, and other surfaces create more potential for water contamination and drainage issues.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 04-12-13 at 04:00 PM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Maryland decides to tax residents when it rains

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I understand what you're getting at, but to tax government is to be redundant.
    And yet they specifically excluded government roads,buildings and other property in the bill.
    There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences.
    P. J. O'Rourke

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