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Thread: Former MI5 chief criticises Blair's defence of the Iraq war

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    Re: Former MI5 chief criticises Blair's defence of the Iraq war

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Do you have a link to another pop song to support these claims?
    I might have..but I am bored with your inane crap..

    Will this do??

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBYjZTdrJlA

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    Re: Former MI5 chief criticises Blair's defence of the Iraq war

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Has that secret evidence eluded us up until now? Don't count on it. Unanimous votes in the UN security council about the weapons. Come on even our enemies thought he had them. Bill Clinton even thought so. Drop the subject because you can't win on it.
    It ends up there were WMD's but the MSM and liberals decided that mustard and sarin gas didn't count.

    Munitions Found in Iraq Meet WMD Criteria, Official SaysBy Samantha L. Quigley
    American Forces Press Service

    >" WASHINGTON, June 29, 2006 The 500 munitions discovered throughout Iraq since 2003 and discussed in a National Ground Intelligence Center report meet the criteria of weapons of mass destruction, the center's commander said here today.

    "These are chemical weapons as defined under the Chemical Weapons Convention, and yes ... they do constitute weapons of mass destruction," Army Col. John Chu told the House Armed Services Committee.

    The Chemical Weapons Convention is an arms control agreement which outlaws the production, stockpiling and use of chemical weapons. It was signed in 1993 and entered into force in 1997.

    The munitions found contain sarin and mustard gases, Army Lt. Gen. Michael D. Maples, director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, said. Sarin attacks the neurological system and is potentially lethal.

    "Mustard is a blister agent (that) actually produces burning of any area (where) an individual may come in contact with the agent," he said. It also is potentially fatal if it gets into a person's lungs.

    The munitions addressed in the report were produced in the 1980s, Maples said. Badly corroded, they could not currently be used as originally intended, Chu added.

    While that's reassuring, the agent remaining in the weapons would be very valuable to terrorists and insurgents, Maples said. "We're talking chemical agents here that could be packaged in a different format and have a great effect," he said, referencing the sarin-gas attack on a Japanese subway in the mid-1990s.

    This is true even considering any degradation of the chemical agents that may have occurred, Chu said. It's not known exactly how sarin breaks down, but no matter how degraded the agent is, it's still toxic.

    "Regardless of (how much material in the weapon is actually chemical agent), any remaining agent is toxic," he said. "Anything above zero (percent agent) would prove to be toxic, and if you were exposed to it long enough, lethal."

    Though about 500 chemical weapons - the exact number has not been released publicly - have been found, Maples said he doesn't believe Iraq is a "WMD-free zone."

    "I do believe the former regime did a very poor job of accountability of munitions, and certainly did not document the destruction of munitions," he said. "The recovery program goes on, and I do not believe we have found all the weapons."

    The Defense Intelligence Agency director said locating and disposing of chemical weapons in Iraq is one of the most important tasks servicemembers in the country perform.

    Maples added searches are ongoing for chemical weapons beyond those being conducted solely for force protection.

    There has been a call for a complete declassification of the National Ground Intelligence Center's report on WMD in Iraq. Maples said he believes the director of national intelligence is still considering this option, and has asked Maples to look into producing an unclassified paper addressing the subject matter in the center's report.

    Much of the classified matter was slated for discussion in a closed forum after the open hearings this morning. "< -> Defense.gov News Article: Munitions Found in Iraq Meet WMD Criteria, Official Says

    Defense Intelligence Agency
    National Ground Intelligence Center

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    Re: Former MI5 chief criticises Blair's defence of the Iraq war

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    It ends up there were WMD's but the MSM and liberals decided that mustard and sarin gas didn't count.

    Munitions Found in Iraq Meet WMD Criteria, Official SaysBy Samantha L. Quigley
    American Forces Press Service

    >" WASHINGTON, June 29, 2006 – The 500 munitions discovered throughout Iraq since 2003 and discussed in a National Ground Intelligence Center report meet the criteria of weapons of mass destruction, the center's commander said here today.

    "These are chemical weapons as defined under the Chemical Weapons Convention, and yes ... they do constitute weapons of mass destruction," Army Col. John Chu told the House Armed Services Committee.

    The Chemical Weapons Convention is an arms control agreement which outlaws the production, stockpiling and use of chemical weapons. It was signed in 1993 and entered into force in 1997.

    The munitions found contain sarin and mustard gases, Army Lt. Gen. Michael D. Maples, director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, said. Sarin attacks the neurological system and is potentially lethal.

    "Mustard is a blister agent (that) actually produces burning of any area (where) an individual may come in contact with the agent," he said. It also is potentially fatal if it gets into a person's lungs.

    The munitions addressed in the report were produced in the 1980s, Maples said. Badly corroded, they could not currently be used as originally intended, Chu added.

    While that's reassuring, the agent remaining in the weapons would be very valuable to terrorists and insurgents, Maples said. "We're talking chemical agents here that could be packaged in a different format and have a great effect," he said, referencing the sarin-gas attack on a Japanese subway in the mid-1990s.

    This is true even considering any degradation of the chemical agents that may have occurred, Chu said. It's not known exactly how sarin breaks down, but no matter how degraded the agent is, it's still toxic.

    "Regardless of (how much material in the weapon is actually chemical agent), any remaining agent is toxic," he said. "Anything above zero (percent agent) would prove to be toxic, and if you were exposed to it long enough, lethal."

    Though about 500 chemical weapons - the exact number has not been released publicly - have been found, Maples said he doesn't believe Iraq is a "WMD-free zone."

    "I do believe the former regime did a very poor job of accountability of munitions, and certainly did not document the destruction of munitions," he said. "The recovery program goes on, and I do not believe we have found all the weapons."

    The Defense Intelligence Agency director said locating and disposing of chemical weapons in Iraq is one of the most important tasks servicemembers in the country perform.

    Maples added searches are ongoing for chemical weapons beyond those being conducted solely for force protection.

    There has been a call for a complete declassification of the National Ground Intelligence Center's report on WMD in Iraq. Maples said he believes the director of national intelligence is still considering this option, and has asked Maples to look into producing an unclassified paper addressing the subject matter in the center's report.

    Much of the classified matter was slated for discussion in a closed forum after the open hearings this morning. "< -> Defense.gov News Article: Munitions Found in Iraq Meet WMD Criteria, Official Says

    Defense Intelligence Agency
    National Ground Intelligence Center
    I recall reading this at the time but, like the Kermit Gosnell murder trial, it didn't receive much publicity from the MSM.

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    Re: Former MI5 chief criticises Blair's defence of the Iraq war

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    I recall reading this at the time but, like the Kermit Gosnell murder trial, it didn't receive much publicity from the MSM.
    Same with GITMO after Obama was elected POTUS.

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    Re: Former MI5 chief criticises Blair's defence of the Iraq war

    According to a 1994 Senate report, private American suppliers, licensed by the U.S. Department of Commerce, exported a witch's brew of biological and chemical materials to Iraq from 1985 through 1989. Among the biological materials, which often produce slow, agonizing death, were:

    • Bacillus Anthracis, cause of anthrax.
    • Clostridium Botulinum, a source of botulinum toxin.
    • Histoplasma Capsulatam, cause of a disease attacking lungs, brain, spinal cord, and heart.
    • Brucella Melitensis, a bacteria that can damage major organs.
    • Clostridium Perfringens, a highly toxic bacteria causing systemic illness.
    • Clostridium tetani, a highly toxigenic substance.

    Also on the list: Escherichia coli (E. coli), genetic materials, human and bacterial DNA, and dozens of other pathogenic biological agents. "These biological materials were not attenuated or weakened and were capable of reproduction," the Senate report stated. "It was later learned that these microorganisms exported by the United States were identical to those the United Nations inspectors found and removed from the Iraqi biological warfare program."

    The report noted further that U.S. exports to Iraq included the precursors to chemical-warfare agents, plans for chemical and biological warfare production facilities, and chemical-warhead filling equipment.

    The exports continued to at least November 28, 1989, despite evidence that Iraq was engaging in chemical and biological warfare against Iranians and Kurds since as early as 1984.

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    Re: Former MI5 chief criticises Blair's defence of the Iraq war

    In terms of nerve gas/biological warfare chemicals in Saddam Hussein's possession these came from:

    * Alcolac International, a Baltimore chemical manufacturer already linked to the illegal shipment of chemicals to Iran, shipped large quantities of thiodiglycol (used to make mustard gas) as well as other chemical and biological ingredients, according to a 1989 story in The New York Times.

    * Nu Kraft Mercantile Corp. of Brooklyn (affiliated with the United Steel and Strip Corporation) also supplied Iraq with huge amounts of thiodiglycol, the Times reported.

    * Celery Corp., Charlotte, NC

    * Matrix-Churchill Corp., Cleveland, OH (regarded as a front for the Iraqi government, according to Representative Henry Gonzalez, Democrat of Texas, who quoted U.S. intelligence documents to this effect in a 1992 speech on the House floor).

    The following companies were also named as chemical and biological materials suppliers in the 1992 Senate hearings on "United States export policy toward Iraq prior to Iraq's invasion of Kuwait":

    * Mouse Master, Lilburn, GA

    * Sullaire Corp., Charlotte, NC

    * Pure Aire, Charlotte, NC

    * Posi Seal, Inc., N. Stonington, CT

    * Union Carbide, Danbury, CT

    * Evapco, Taneytown, MD

    * Gorman-Rupp, Mansfield, OH

    Additionally, several other companies were sued in connection with their activities providing Iraq with chemical or biological supplies: subsidiaries or branches of Fisher Controls International, Inc., St. Louis; Rhone-Poulenc, Inc., Princeton, NJ; Bechtel Group, Inc., San Francisco; and Lummus Crest, Inc., Bloomfield, NJ, which built one chemical plant in Iraq and, before the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait in August 1990, was building an ethylene facility. Ethylene is a necessary ingredient for thiodiglycol.

    The American company that provided the most biological materials to Iraq in the 1980s was American Type Culture Collection of Maryland and Virginia, which made seventy shipments of the anthrax-causing germ and other pathogenic agents.

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    Re: Former MI5 chief criticises Blair's defence of the Iraq war

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    It ends up there were WMD's but the MSM and liberals decided that mustard and sarin gas didn't count.

    Munitions Found in Iraq Meet WMD Criteria, Official SaysBy Samantha L. Quigley
    American Forces Press Service

    >" WASHINGTON, June 29, 2006 The 500 munitions discovered throughout Iraq since 2003 and discussed in a National Ground Intelligence Center report meet the criteria of weapons of mass destruction, the center's commander said here today.

    "These are chemical weapons as defined under the Chemical Weapons Convention, and yes ... they do constitute weapons of mass destruction," Army Col. John Chu told the House Armed Services Committee.

    The Chemical Weapons Convention is an arms control agreement which outlaws the production, stockpiling and use of chemical weapons. It was signed in 1993 and entered into force in 1997.

    The munitions found contain sarin and mustard gases, Army Lt. Gen. Michael D. Maples, director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, said. Sarin attacks the neurological system and is potentially lethal.

    "Mustard is a blister agent (that) actually produces burning of any area (where) an individual may come in contact with the agent," he said. It also is potentially fatal if it gets into a person's lungs.

    The munitions addressed in the report were produced in the 1980s, Maples said. Badly corroded, they could not currently be used as originally intended, Chu added.

    While that's reassuring, the agent remaining in the weapons would be very valuable to terrorists and insurgents, Maples said. "We're talking chemical agents here that could be packaged in a different format and have a great effect," he said, referencing the sarin-gas attack on a Japanese subway in the mid-1990s.

    This is true even considering any degradation of the chemical agents that may have occurred, Chu said. It's not known exactly how sarin breaks down, but no matter how degraded the agent is, it's still toxic.

    "Regardless of (how much material in the weapon is actually chemical agent), any remaining agent is toxic," he said. "Anything above zero (percent agent) would prove to be toxic, and if you were exposed to it long enough, lethal."

    Though about 500 chemical weapons - the exact number has not been released publicly - have been found, Maples said he doesn't believe Iraq is a "WMD-free zone."

    "I do believe the former regime did a very poor job of accountability of munitions, and certainly did not document the destruction of munitions," he said. "The recovery program goes on, and I do not believe we have found all the weapons."

    The Defense Intelligence Agency director said locating and disposing of chemical weapons in Iraq is one of the most important tasks servicemembers in the country perform.

    Maples added searches are ongoing for chemical weapons beyond those being conducted solely for force protection.

    There has been a call for a complete declassification of the National Ground Intelligence Center's report on WMD in Iraq. Maples said he believes the director of national intelligence is still considering this option, and has asked Maples to look into producing an unclassified paper addressing the subject matter in the center's report.

    Much of the classified matter was slated for discussion in a closed forum after the open hearings this morning. "< -> Defense.gov News Article: Munitions Found in Iraq Meet WMD Criteria, Official Says

    Defense Intelligence Agency
    National Ground Intelligence Center
    But that's just the crap we sold him and 500 munitions isn't alot given the bulk orders he made during the 80's gassing of civilians. Wouldn't have been easier just to show the American public the WMD receipts/IOUs than come up with such shoddy intel?

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    Re: Former MI5 chief criticises Blair's defence of the Iraq war

    Quote Originally Posted by Joechilli View Post
    But that's just the crap we sold him and 500 munitions isn't alot given the bulk orders he made during the 80's gassing of civilians. Wouldn't have been easier just to show the American public the WMD receipts/IOUs than come up with such shoddy intel?

    Funny how some think, 500 155 MM artillery rounds filled with sarin nerve gas and mustard gas isn't alot when Bush was POTUS.

    Iraq manufactured most of their own mustard and sarin gas. But those evil Brazilians did sell Iraq 500 tons of mustard gas.

    For what credibility Wikipedia has -> Iraqi chemical weapons program - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The fats are, Iraq did have WMD's and the MSM gave Iraq a complete pass as if Iraq was Obama.

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    Re: Former MI5 chief criticises Blair's defence of the Iraq war

    Saddam was sold tonnes and tonnes of these chemical agents he had used most of his stockpiles by 1991. UN sanctions led to a further decrease. There was also no problem in selling him materials for genocide until 1991. He was also not seen as an imminent 30 minute WMD threat until 2003 when his regimes ability too attack using WMDs had declined considerably.

    Throughout the life of ISG (Iraq Survey Group), there were two occasions where chemical weapons were found.[citation needed] The first was a single sarin mortar shell which had been reworked into a roadside IED by insurgents. The second was a handful of 122-millimeter rocket warheads filled with inert mustard gas that was recovered near Babylon. Both were thought to be remainders from the Iran–Iraq War, when Iraq was in some sense a US ally, and were useless as offensive weapons.

    On 23 January 2004, the head of the ISG, David Kay, resigned his position, stating that he believed WMD stockpiles would not be found in Iraq. "I don't think they existed," commented Kay. "What everyone was talking about is stockpiles produced after the end of the last Gulf War and I don't think there was a large-scale production program in the nineties." In a briefing to the Senate Armed Services Committee, Kay criticized the pre-war WMD intelligence and the agencies that produced it, saying "It turns out that we were all wrong, probably in my judgment, and that is most disturbing."[1] Sometime earlier, CIA director George Tenet had asked David Kay to delay his departure: "If you resign now, it will appear that we don't know what we're doing. That the wheels are coming off."[2]

    Kay told the SASC during his oral report the following, though: "Based on the intelligence that existed, I think it was reasonable to reach the conclusion that Iraq posed an imminent threat. Now that you know reality on the ground as opposed to what you estimated before, you may reach a different conclusion-—although I must say I actually think what we learned during the inspection made Iraq a more dangerous place, potentially, than, in fact, we thought it was even before the war."

    Kay's team established that the Iraqi regime had the production capacity and know-how to produce chemical and biological weaponry if international economic sanctions were lifted, a policy change which was actively being sought by a number of United Nations member states. Kay also believed some components of the former Iraqi regime's WMD program had been moved to Syria shortly before the 2003 invasion,[3] though the Duelfer Report Addenda (see below) later reported there was no evidence of this.

    On 6 February 2004, George W. Bush convened the Iraq Intelligence Commission, an independent inquiry into the intelligence used to justify the Iraq war and the failure to find WMD. This was shortly followed by the conclusion of a similar inquiry in the United Kingdom, the Butler Review, which was boycotted by the two main opposition parties due to disagreements on its scope and independence.[4] In 2003, the US-sponsored search for WMD had been budgeted for $400 million, with an additional $600 million added in 2004.

    Kay's successor, named by CIA director George Tenet, was the former UN weapons inspector Charles Duelfer, who stated at the time that the chances of finding any WMD stockpiles in Iraq were "close to nil."

    In January 2005, the group announced the conclusion of its search. The ISG stated that while it had, "not found evidence that Saddam possessed WMD stocks in 2003," they acknowledged "the possibility that some weapons existed in Iraq, although not of a militarily significant capability."

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    Re: Former MI5 chief criticises Blair's defence of the Iraq war

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    It ends up there were WMD's but the MSM and liberals decided that mustard and sarin gas didn't count.

    Munitions Found in Iraq Meet WMD Criteria, Official SaysBy Samantha L. Quigley
    American Forces Press Service

    >" WASHINGTON, June 29, 2006 – The 500 munitions discovered throughout Iraq since 2003 and discussed in a National Ground Intelligence Center report meet the criteria of weapons of mass destruction, the center's commander said here today.

    "These are chemical weapons as defined under the Chemical Weapons Convention, and yes ... they do constitute weapons of mass destruction," Army Col. John Chu told the House Armed Services Committee.

    The Chemical Weapons Convention is an arms control agreement which outlaws the production, stockpiling and use of chemical weapons. It was signed in 1993 and entered into force in 1997.

    The munitions found contain sarin and mustard gases, Army Lt. Gen. Michael D. Maples, director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, said. Sarin attacks the neurological system and is potentially lethal.

    "Mustard is a blister agent (that) actually produces burning of any area (where) an individual may come in contact with the agent," he said. It also is potentially fatal if it gets into a person's lungs.

    The munitions addressed in the report were produced in the 1980s, Maples said. Badly corroded, they could not currently be used as originally intended, Chu added.

    While that's reassuring, the agent remaining in the weapons would be very valuable to terrorists and insurgents, Maples said. "We're talking chemical agents here that could be packaged in a different format and have a great effect," he said, referencing the sarin-gas attack on a Japanese subway in the mid-1990s.

    This is true even considering any degradation of the chemical agents that may have occurred, Chu said. It's not known exactly how sarin breaks down, but no matter how degraded the agent is, it's still toxic.

    "Regardless of (how much material in the weapon is actually chemical agent), any remaining agent is toxic," he said. "Anything above zero (percent agent) would prove to be toxic, and if you were exposed to it long enough, lethal."

    Though about 500 chemical weapons - the exact number has not been released publicly - have been found, Maples said he doesn't believe Iraq is a "WMD-free zone."

    "I do believe the former regime did a very poor job of accountability of munitions, and certainly did not document the destruction of munitions," he said. "The recovery program goes on, and I do not believe we have found all the weapons."

    The Defense Intelligence Agency director said locating and disposing of chemical weapons in Iraq is one of the most important tasks servicemembers in the country perform.

    Maples added searches are ongoing for chemical weapons beyond those being conducted solely for force protection.

    There has been a call for a complete declassification of the National Ground Intelligence Center's report on WMD in Iraq. Maples said he believes the director of national intelligence is still considering this option, and has asked Maples to look into producing an unclassified paper addressing the subject matter in the center's report.

    Much of the classified matter was slated for discussion in a closed forum after the open hearings this morning. "< -> Defense.gov News Article: Munitions Found in Iraq Meet WMD Criteria, Official Says

    Defense Intelligence Agency
    National Ground Intelligence Center
    So a military run newspaper justifies the war.. what a shocker! Not exactly brilliant moral making material if they came out and said.. "oh yea your buddy who got his head blown off beside you.. basically died due to a lie".
    PeteEU

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