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Baroness Thatcher dies, age 87 [W:113]

Re: Baroness Thatcher dies, age 87

DA60 said:
She was 87 and apparently had suffered from dementia for years.

Why really old people who are losing their mind hang on as long as possible is TOTALLY beyond me.

I guess they are just afraid of dying.

If I was permanently losing my mind - I would welcome death as fast as possible.

Why would I hang on - so I can watch the pain on my friends/families faces as I slowly slip away from them?

Pass.
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shalll we kill them because they dont want to die ?

:roll:
 
Re: Baroness Thatcher dies, age 87

Andalublue said:
clownboy said:
Home ownership.
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That's spelled REPOSSESSION these days.
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You will be able to show that the council homes that Thatcher enabled the poor to buy have been repossessed? We're also talking about something that happened over 30 years ago and you're blaming modern repossession on Thatcher in the 80's?
 
Re: Baroness Thatcher dies, age 87

Manc Skipper said:
The man from the "Independent" (centre right paper) sums it up very well in his assessment of "Thatcherism" rather than the lady herself.

" ...We are in the midst of the third great economic collapse since the Second World War: all three have taken place since Thatcherism launched its great crusade. This current crisis has roots in the Thatcherite free market experiment, which wiped out much of the country’s industrial base in favour of a deregulated financial sector.
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LOL, the writer conveniently leaves out the economics of the 1970's when Britain had to go to the IMF for help. If that single incident is not a sign of a "great economic collapse" then nothing is. Let's leave out the 3 day week, power cuts across the country and all the other industrial nightmares of the 1970's shall we?

Owen Jones - Independent Newspaper said:
this is a consequence of Thatcherism’s emptying communities of millions of secure, skilled industrial jobs. Large swathes of Britain – mining villages, steel towns and so on – were devastated, and never really recovered. Even when Britain was supposedly booming, the old industrial heartlands had high levels of what is rather clinically described as “economic inactivity”.
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The root of the hate: those "secure jobs for life" in mines, car factories and shipyards which were underwritten by the taxpayer, we just stumped up the bill whenever the unions demanded higher pay and weaker conditions on their working practice (i.e. staying awake on the job, actually producing something and horror of horrors - making something that actually was wanted and could be exported.)

The crux of the problem is a belief the world owes you something and boy are you going to strike and riot till you get it. Not work for it - just strike.
 
Andalublue said:
And in Doncaster, Grimethorpe, Derry and Sunderland. What? You were expecting them in Tunbridge Wells, Basildon and Chelsea?
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Not surprised by where, but that it happened at all. She's been demented for the past decade or so and finally croaked. If she were in office it might make sense. Taking the high road might have been in order.
 
Re: Baroness Thatcher dies, age 87

head of joaquin said:
head of joaquin said:
Thatcher's hatred of working people still give conservatives erections after all these years.
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Delusion much?
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How very apt.

head of joaquin said:
Eastern Europe fell because of liberal policies that opened up the Soviet Union to western influence by getting over the Cold War lunacy. But I love your little rightwing narrative.
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Strange that many leaders and prominent figures in Eastern Europe and the old USSR seem to support Grant's position in this. Why do you think this is?
 
Leo said:
-- From what I have read of her premiership, she (like everyone) did good and bad things. -- The balance of opinion I have heard from those old enough to have lived during her 'reign', was that, on balance, she did more harm to the society of great Britain than good. She came across to many Britons as arrogant and lacking empathy, encouraged adulation of wealth, and introduced a certain mean-spiritedness to British society (as exemplified by her approach to the miners' strike, and the denial of milk to school children). Others, with more knowledge than I, may hold another opinion, but that is the impression I have gained.
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There is a dichotomy here - if Britons saw her as mean spirited and arrogant, lacking empathy - we wouldn't have voted for her. The milk issue was from 1974 when she stopped free milk for older primary school children. Enough time between 74 and 79 for people to choose not to vote for her if they disagreed this strongly enough. Trouble was Harold Wilson's Labour Govt had stopped free milk for secondary school children 4 years earlier but nobody remembers that. As for the miners and unions - they were election pledges, she campaigned for the popular vote on a manifesto to curb union power.

You need to extend your reading back to the 70's to see why we were fed up; it wasn't just the winter of discontent in 1978/79 that was the problem - go right back to the problems in British Leyland, read up on working practices (including sleeping on the job) poor management, shoddy goods produced in what people lovingly called "British Industry" of the time - Austin Allegro for starters) the 3 day working week, going cap in hand to the IMF,

Leo said:
-- But she was a fellow human being, neither saint nor demon, who has made the journey we all must one day, and I wish her soul peace.
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Agreed and seconded.
 
"There is no such thing as public money, only taxpayer money."
 
Re: Baroness Thatcher dies, age 87

ludahai said:
And given the illegal tactics used by unions in her day, no wonder. And you would support a third-world tinpot dictator and illegal invasions, wouldn't you?
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Not as much as Reagan and Kissinger.
 
Re: Baroness Thatcher dies, age 87

clownboy said:
That's right, you people vote for party which installs it's leader. Same answer to you then, the people kept voting in the party knowing she was leader and would remain PM.

Can the games. Your position wasn't popular with your countrymen then as it isn't now.
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Actually most people didnt vote for her. The Tories never got more then 50% of the vote under her premiership. In many ways I blame our political/electoral system for what happend to the economy during the 80's. Sure the economic system that was in place during the 70s needed reform but not in the way Thatcher did it. People voted for these reforms under a system that descriminated against third parties and left people to choose between two extremes, and even then more people voted against her (if you add up Labour, the Lib-dems, and others) than for her.
 
Re: Baroness Thatcher dies, age 87

Never heard this anecdote. Classic. Good article too.

When the late Christopher Hitchens was a political reporter for the New Statesman, he corrected the prime minister on a point of fact, and she was quick to correct Hitchens in turn. She was right, he was wrong. In front of his journalist colleagues he was told to stand right in front of her so that she could hit him lightly with her order papers. Over the years, and through much re-telling, the story had it that Thatcher told Hitchens to bend over, and that she spanked him with her order papers.
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Margaret Thatcher: we disliked her and we loved it | Politics | The Guardian
 
Re: Baroness Thatcher dies, age 87

Red_Dave said:
Actually most people didnt vote for her. The Tories never got more then 50% of the vote under her premiership. In many ways I blame our political/electoral system for what happend to the economy during the 80's. Sure the economic system that was in place during the 70s needed reform but not in the way Thatcher did it. People voted for these reforms under a system that descriminated against third parties and left people to choose between two extremes, and even then more people voted against her (if you add up Labour, the Lib-dems, and others) than for her.
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I guess fractionalized voting blocks are a good thing, but only when they do what socialists want them to....
 
Re: Baroness Thatcher dies, age 87

j-mac said:
I guess fractionalized voting blocks are a good thing, but only when they do what socialists want them to....
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On the contrary Chile would have been better off without Salvador Allende for one
 
Re: Baroness Thatcher dies, age 87

Red_Dave said:
On the contrary Chile would have been better off without Salvador Allende for one
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Wow, some socialist you are....Allende was Marxist trash, I'd have thought you'd be all in for that.
 
Re: Baroness Thatcher dies, age 87

j-mac said:
Wow, some socialist you are....Allende was Marxist trash, I'd have thought you'd be all in for that.
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Someone like Eduardo Frei Montalva* could have made similar refroms without the same instability that occured under Allende (creating the proconditions for Pinochets coup, not that that was what the coup was about). I guess its like Thatcher in reverse but this is maybe one for the history forum.

*Who had enacted nationalisations by buying shares before Allende was elected.
 
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Re: Baroness Thatcher dies, age 87

I do hope there is a hell.
 
Re: Baroness Thatcher dies, age 87

RIP Miss Thatcher,
many people are dissing her and many praising. I noticed it seems to be the opposite of the Hugo Chavez death thread. Personally I think the death of both is sad as it is for most human beings. Neither of them were perfect but both loved their country, they just had different ideas on what was best for their people. Neither of them can be considered a Hitler, Stalin, Mao or Pol Pot. Truly evil people who murdered millions.
 
Re: Baroness Thatcher dies, age 87

Red_Dave said:
-- Sure the economic system that was in place during the 70s needed reform but not in the way Thatcher did it --
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How would you have done things differently?

Good article here which explores what if she had never come along - seems to me we'd have continued a long slow decline whereas we had a sharp shock and turnaround. Jim Callaghan tried in '75 to persuade the unions and management to take a more "Germanic" view of industrial policy but was roundly booed off stage by the unions.
 
Re: Baroness Thatcher dies, age 87

Quag said:
RIP Miss Thatcher,
many people are dissing her and many praising. I noticed it seems to be the opposite of the Hugo Chavez death thread. Personally I think the death of both is sad as it is for most human beings. Neither of them were perfect but both loved their country, they just had different ideas on what was best for their people. Neither of them can be considered a Hitler, Stalin, Mao or Pol Pot. Truly evil people who murdered millions.
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If there is one thing certain about Thatcher is that she hated and detested Britain and all British people and wanted to complete Hitler's work by turning them into grovelling slaves, like mere Americans.
 
Re: Baroness Thatcher dies, age 87

Penderyn said:
If there is one thing certain about Thatcher is that she hated and detested Britain and all British people and wanted to complete Hitler's work by turning them into grovelling slaves, like mere Americans.
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Wow got your hate on much? A human being died and you can only spew hate? Again if she was Hitler, Stalin, Mao or Pol pot I could understand but in a democratic country with a leader who came and left power democratically you can disagree with the politics but to take joy in someone's death is perverse.
 
Re: Baroness Thatcher dies, age 87

Penderyn said:
If there is one thing certain about Thatcher is that she hated and detested Britain and all British people and wanted to complete Hitler's work by turning them into grovelling slaves, like mere Americans.
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:lamo

She hated Britain so much she spent her life getting into parliament and becoming Prime Minister. I've read a few posts which ignored real history but this post takes us into la-la land.
 
Re: Baroness Thatcher dies, age 87

Good riddance to a fascist woman.
 
Re: Baroness Thatcher dies, age 87

Quag said:
Wow got your hate on much? A human being died and you can only spew hate? Again if she was Hitler, Stalin, Mao or Pol pot I could understand but in a democratic country with a leader who came and left power democratically you can disagree with the politics but to take joy in someone's death is perverse.
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I never take pleasure is someone's death. I wanted her tried, obviously. I hate no-one, but she destroyed my country and made milllions suffer, rewardiong every kind of evil and making ignorant selfishness 'normal'. She was the worst human being who has ever lived, anywhere, ever.
 
Re: Baroness Thatcher dies, age 87

Henry David said:
Good riddance to a fascist woman.
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Facism is defined as such by Wiki...

Fascism (pron.: /ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism[1][2] that came to prominence in mid-20th century Europe. Fascists seek to unify their nation through a totalitarian state that promotes the mass mobilization of the national community,[3][4] relying on a vanguard party to initiate a revolution to organize the nation on fascist principles.[5] Hostile to liberal democracy, socialism, and communism, fascist movements share certain common features, including the veneration of the state, a devotion to a strong leader, and an emphasis on ultranationalism, ethnocentrism, and militarism. Fascism views political violence, war, and imperialism as a means to achieve national rejuvenation[3][6][7][8] and asserts that "superior" nations and races should attain living space by displacing weak and inferior ones.[9]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism
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Applying this to Thatcher begs the question if you even know what facism is.
 
Re: Baroness Thatcher dies, age 87

Infinite Chaos said:
:lamo

She hated Britain so much she spent her life getting into parliament and becoming Prime Minister. I've read a few posts which ignored real history but this post takes us into la-la land.
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Don't be so daft. Who else has the power to destroy a country? Look at Bliar and Cameron.
 
Re: Baroness Thatcher dies, age 87

j-mac said:
Facism is defined as such by Wiki...



Applying this to Thatcher begs the question if you even know what facism is.
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'Raises' is the word you want.
 
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